Menace to Society?
Cops in Flint, Michigan are literally playing fashion police!
According to reports, the city's new chief of police has ordered his officers to start arresting saggers*.
Saggers could face jail time and hefty fines for a fad he calls "immoral self expression."
He later told a local paper the style could give officers probable cause to search saggers.
WTF?
Flint is in America!
We still have some freedom of expression rights in our country, don't we?
Michael Moore, what's your hometown thinking?
No worries…the ACLU is on the case. They've threatened to take the Flint cops to court if they insist on citing peeps for sagging.
*Saggers = fans of wearing their pants low - very low!
Update: A reader points out something very interesting.
"Although I'm not a fan of the baggy jeans look, most folks don't know that the whole look didn't start as a fashion statement, but because poor kids always had to wear hand me down clothing …so in the hood, everyone was wearing pants, shirts and shoes that were way too big for them. The look is a nod to that …and when folks challenge that, it's often because they don't understand the context."
Update #2: Inneresting.
Another reader offers a different take on things.
"On the posting about the new saggy pants citations in Mich you have an update from a reader who points out the tradition stems from poor kids wearing hand-me-down clothes. This is not true. It stems from the fact that when in prison, prisoners aren't allowed to have belts, so their prison issue pants often sag very low. The style of saggy pants was brought to the street as a show of toughness associated with the prison/gangster lifestyle. And the citations aren't really about freedom of expression. One of the main reasons saggy pants are being banned in many places (including in many schools) is because it makes it easier to conceal guns."
Update #3:
You guys are so smart!
Another reader points out an interesting hypothesis, " just an update, they are STRUGGLING in michigan and they are trying to find some way to make money, especiallllly oakland county. that's why they're enforcing this."
[Image via WENN.]
He's Not Gay
Headline of the 
first?
They are just copying the way men in prison dress so they don't become somebody's bitch. Just practicing for the day when they will be in prison also.
Oh and they just look STUPID.
3RD
sagging is kinda stupid… but wtf you can't arrest people for it.
Shreveport,La has that rule too. Watch out Josh Brolin.
Good for them!
If I were to walk down the street only wearing underwear I'd get a ticket for indecent exposure. What's the diff here? If you belt your 'pants' below your actually rear end, well you're not really wearing pants. Simply having fabric on your legs but not covering your hind end is indeed indecent exposure.
Of course the ACLU is on it bcs mostly it's young black guys wearing their pants this way. Doesn't matter who does it though it screams low class all the way.
I for one don't want to look at someones underwear like that, it's very tacky and disrepectful to every other citizen who must look upon thier tush!
It's not just a fashion statement.
I think "Sagging" is so silly. Buy a belt already!
flint is a small closed minded place I'm not shocked at all
Well personally I think that "fashion" style looks pretty stupid. Also, FYI in Prison, if you wear your pants below your ass it means you are ready to be bitched out. Not sure how this became a cultural fashion style, but just think about that when the "saggers" are looking like idiots and thinking they look fly.
That law is complete bullshit, and I hope that it eventually gets abolished.
I don't like the style any more than the next person, but it's not hurting anybody either.
if they wanna look like dumbasses let them wear their pants how they want.
GOOD! This idiotic fashion trend needs to disappear FAST… my 3 year old daughter does not need to see grown men walking around in their underwear with their pants around their damn knees when we are out in public.. its disgusting!! How am I supposed to explain that to her??? I guess we should just never leave the house?
People arent allowed to walk around naked for a reason.. walking around in your underwear isnt much different.
The city of Atlanta has the same law!
i mean….isn't it illegal to arrest based on bias?
HMMMMMM… It is a bit rediculous. However, I grew up in Flint Michigan and some of the violent problems have an obvious positive correlation with some of the local "fashion statements." As all should know generalizations are always subject to acceptions. This is what should be considered by Flint law enforcement….perhaps??
he looks like a fucking idiot
Re: Chloe – How is walking around with your bare ass hanging out preventing becoming someones bitch? It seems like you're giving them open access to your ass. If gay men were to walk around like this, they would be arrested and charged as a sex offender.
I agree! I don't want to see Some Guys Undies!
I new this guy liked to take it up the tailpipe.
Please arrest Sluts who have Their breasts nearly exposed, too!! Don't be sexist!!
i live in michigan. not by flint though
it is by far and i've checked the worst place to live in america
its so dangerous people are getting shot all the time
i can see how they're trying to stop it
I believe in freedom to express one's self but YOU GO FLINT.. I HATE the sagging fad!!!!! Make all them idiots pull their damn pants up!!!!!
IMO, sagging is retarded.
I understand the need to "look tough"
But seriously….
If I want to see what you have underneath your pants…
No need for a display…
I will take your pants off myself.
Just wait until President Obama is in office. He will make us pull our pants up and eventually wear head dresses.
well besides the fact that people who "sag" look like fucking morons….i am yet again ashamed to be from michigan.
ha!
MAYBE YOU GUYS HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE.
SO STOP SAYING ITS STUPID.
BECAUSE I HAVE AND ITS AWFUL. AND THEY NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO STOP IT.
Didn't this "trend" die out like 10 years ago? why are blacks still dressing like this? it's so gross and I think it's funny that they wanna do something about it, don't blame em!
hands down one of the absolute STUPIDEST things i've ever heard….
Lock them all up! I don't want to see someones rear or underwear when walking down the street with my 3 year old. It's crude and creeky!
That law is dumb people should be allowed to dress however they want.
Hey thiscould go very wrong.
We moved to SW and I was called saying My Son 4th grader was going to be kicked out of school for "sagging". They said they were sorry after I told Them to look-He HAD a belt on and They were hand Me down pants. I see BIG problems with this Law!
God I haaaaaaaaate this style of dress. It is a sign of a fucking looser, but we do have the right to dress like fucking loosers in this country.
I totally agree with citing them for this. I don't want to take my children to the store and have them see someone’s ASS sticking out. I think it's completely disgusting.
In Chicago, they're issuing tickets/$25 fines. WTF?? Sagging just doesn't look right to me, but I wouldn't charge for it!!! Remember the holey jeans??? They were ugly, but eventually they went away, didn't they?
America…land of the free???
I've lived in Flint my whole life, and I can tell you right now… the Flint police aren't going to be enforcing this. Also, Michael Moore Is NOT from Flint. He is from Davison, a small yuppie town that is NOTHING like Flint. Its really not that big of a deal… I would hope that the Flint police have more important things to do… like, I don't know, arresting druggies and murderers.
shouldn't be illegal but it's ugly as shit, thugs buh bye
Re: Hogan –
word!Re: Hogan –
yeah too bad that wearing your pants like that has been against the law everywhere for a while dumass. its called indecent exposure
It gives the police an excuse to stop them and search them for drugs and weapons. GREAT law to keep on the books. Keeps the pieces of shit thugs off the streets so people don't have to walk them in fear. LOL
There are lots of towns here in Georgia that have laws against sagging. It's not about freedom of expression or whatever. It's trashy wanna be gangsters and it's something that started in prisons. I'm so glad they're cracking down on that shit.
I am glad. I hate t have my kids looking at the crack of some disrespectful thug.
WHOO HOO, I live in Flint and I'm so excited about this everyone walks around like this and they all look retarded
Check this out in the Palm Beach Post. Riviera Beach FLorida has the same ban but it couldnt be enforced for a while because it didnt have an Ordinance # so the police couldnt write the tickets.
Re: Dani – It is so hurting someone –me and my fucking eye's. i don't want to see someones ass while walking down the street. He does look like an upstanding young man but i'm sure he simply needs a little guidance on clothing. Maybe the police can help him out.
What about the whores wearing low cut jeans with thongs exposed? or the titts falling out almost showing areolas? This is nothing but a ploy to harrass and search young black men and violate their rights lawfully.
If you've ever been to Flint, you'd be all for this. I think the cops are just freakin' sick and tired of all the violence being committed. And sorry ACLU, but look at who is committing a majority of the crimes Flint police are trying to stop!
Michael Moore went to high school w/ my mom. He's not exactly from the streets. Probably the last person you should associate with Flint.
first off the fad started in prison when they couldnt wear belts to hold up their pants also in prison if u want butt love that is a sign gay predators look for guys that sag and that is there first target watch lockup on msn u will learn a few things
NO OPINION HERE ON THE LAW ITSELF…
.
BUT SPARE ME THE WHOLE… WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SOCIAL SIGNIFICANCE OF UNDERPRIVILEGED CHILDREN HAVING TO WEAR HAND-ME-DOWNS!!
.
ALWAYS AN EXCUSE FOR BEING A DIRTBAG!!
sagging didnt start from that it started in prison, it ment that you were avalible for a bit of rough love.
more importantly, let's check out the Gay Hanky Code…
hmmm, Red bandana worn on Right side…
FIST FUCKEE!!
his saggy pants are just like my short skirts… easy access!
I heard that "sagging" actually started in various prisons. NPR did a story on it because of something that the city of Atlanta started (they are anti-sagging as well). I think it's a good thing to start. It looks ridiculous.
Re: KIM – Exactly!
Though, I don't know about the whole hand-me-down origination that the "reader" is purporting. I always heard it started in prison. I remember my African American music teacher telling us that in middle school over 10 years ago.
FLINT SMELLS LIKE HAM AND FARTS >> THEY HAVE WORSE PROBS THAN PANTS
This law IS NOT about the fashion crime being commited!!! They aren't doing it because people "look stupid" wearing their pants below their ass. It has a lot to do with cops then getting the right to search "saggers" for actual illegal items. And yes, thats a great plan. I'm sorry, but the crime rate in Flint is ridiculous.
I'm all about freedom of expression but this fashion is so dumb, I would consider it illegal.
I had an 8th grader in my class who thought he was soooooo super cool wearing his uniform shorts hanging off his bum…. I used to tease him and tell him that one day his pants were going to fall down….. and one day, indeed they did!!!! Classic.
I also had a hard time understanding why it embarrassed him to walk in my class and be told "Pull up your pants, I don't need to see what color underwear you have on today." Wasn't he already showing them to all of us on purpose?
My other favorite was the 7th grader who, on "dress down" days, would wear a track suit with one pant leg pushed up. He said "But it's cool…..it's GHETTO!!!" I told him little white boys who go to private school know nothing about the ghetto, so pull your pant leg down!!!! At least I didn't have to see his boxers every day. Just the fact that I knew the other kid wore boxers made me feel like a pedophile, against my will!!!!!!
Re: rick –
Oh wah, so it is just aesthetically non-pleasing to you? And somebody deserves a fine/jail time just because it doesn't "look" good? If you don't like it, don't look.
Why don't they just arrest fat people wearing spandex, because that looks terrible too.
The sagging pants did actually come from prison not from hand me downs. In prison you aren't given a belt. People got out of prison and thus the trend began.
More often than not, people forget about the fashion trend's birth in prision. Long before the days of the hood people were in jail and alone. In order to let others know that they were up for a little 'bonding' the pants were sagged. What idiot that decided it was alright to walk around like this is not known however, or I am sure someone would have hacked him off long ago. While the style doesn't suit everybody it's no reason for the cops to 'patrol' them. How about the cops go after the people who decided that leggings were okay to wear without a long enough shirt, or in bright lights with no underwear on? Get real Flint. You have one of the highest crime rates in the country and all you can focus on is a fashion crime? Please.
And, many people don't know that the trend has its roots in prison life as well–bottoms advertising by wearing pants low.
Re: JustSayin – haha! great point! I was a poor little girl myself, as was my brother….all asses covered here!
I don't understand why young african-americans that dress like this are not handed good paying jobs.
if people want to look like idiots then i guess they should be allowed to!
SAGGING ACTUALLY BEGAN IN PRISONS. WHEN SOMEONE WANTED OTHERS TO KNOW THAT HE WAS "AVAILABLE" HE WOULD SAG HIS PANTS MEANING THAT HE WANTED TO BE SOMEONE'S BITCH. THE WHOLE "HAND ME DOWN" THEORY IS A CROCK OF SHIT. STOP GLORIFYING DUMB ASSES IN THIS COUNTRY. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO SEE OTHER'S UNDERWEAR, HENCE THE NAME: UNDERWEAR.
There is absolutely no reason to walk around with your pants under your butt. That is indecent exposure.
hand me down - excuse!.. Lower income families for generations have had to wear hand me downs - they managed to work a device called a belt so we didn't have to look at their underwear - please.
Re: Dani – No, i'm fat…and i like spandex. Looking at a black ass in the middle of an intersection isn't appealing to me though so lets arrest him and i'm for even shipping him out of the country.
funny… if a guy wears pants that don't cover his ass, he's called a sagger and deserves respect… If a girl wears a skirt that don't cover her ass.. she's called whore…
By the way, these guys sure look like dumbasses and if they think it makes them sexy to display their bottom… they're wrong.. veeeery wrong !!!
I was always under the impression that the pants given to prisoners are oversized and they obviously aren't given belts to hold them up, and eventually it crossed over onto the streets as prisoners were released..
no, actually, wearing pants down low means you want to be someone's bitch in prison. you're accepting. for some moronic reason, it has become hip hop fashion to wear the pants low like you want to be butt fucked
doesn't have anything to do with being poor, wearing hand me downs - there are things called belts.
What about MY rights to not have to look at the butt crack of some kid who doesn't realize what he moron he looks like with his pants pulled halfway down his butt?
Re: FUKKu –
Honestly, they should probably stop and search those people too.
This fashion "trend" is common among gang members and… honestly, people who seriously contribute nothing but trouble to society. Discouraging this fashion and the behaviors accompanied by it would be a good thing.
I live 10 minutes from Flint and heard this story on the news last week. It is probably the dumbest law I have heard and am curious as to where they will place these men in jail. Anyone that lives in this area should be well aware of the fact that the prison is already overcrowded. Let's be serious here, would you rather a spot go to someone that was toting a gun ready to rob a bank or do a drive, or should the spot go to some kid that thought sagging his pants was a good idea. Yet another way our law enforcement here has made a city that is on the map for it's violence look even stupider.
There are plenty of "urban legends" as to how this look started. One theory is that the "sag" look was started in prison. Those who wore their pants low were considered "submissive" and were expected to pick up the soap, a lot. Another theory also generated from prison protocol - that prisoners were not allowed to have belts so the pants drooped. If either of these are true, "Saggers" are paying homage to prison life and criminals. Nice.
actually it did not start because poor kids had to wear hand me downs - it started because belts are not allowed in jails so the criminals had to keep hiking their pants up - it is not a poverty issue it is a nod to a criminal lifestyle
This "fad" may have started to represent the "poorer" people but Everybody's doing it. Yikes!!! People who wear their pants like that look so stupid and it seems so disrespectfull . Maybe if more people showed respect for themselves they's be more respected by others. I live in Michigan and Flint is not the "safest" town there is. so if they can take some of those people off the street. My best to them!!
A teacher once told me the fashion statement originated in prisons. The clothes they got came in very few sizes and often sagged on people.
Wow! We've really made it big now! Flint, Michigan's idiot new Police Chief's BRILLIANT idea of arresting saggers made it on Perez's blog! Fantastic!!!!!! Bad enough that Flint is going down the toilet with GM pulling out more & more every year, but now we have to make the news for something so GD ridiculous…someone needs to get a life friggin life!
Men with saggy pants are ASKING TO GET IT FROM BEHIND!!! How you doing!!
Yup, they have some greasy ones in the Detroit/Flint area. BTW, that shitty look started from JAIL clothes, moron. Get your cultural references straight (no pun intended fatso).
I thought is was a way to hide a weapon. That's how the fashion started…
Re: freed –
Flint police are not trying to go all Style Network on people. This has nothing to do with fashion. It has to do with the violence and crimes that saggy pants wearing young males tend to be involved in. Flint is one of the most dangerous cities in the US. Sorry, fat people in spandex or girls wearing Ugg boots with leggings are not the ones participating in shootings, robberies, and drug deals!!!
i thought it was to pay homage to family and friends who were in prison (they take your belt in prison)
Who the hell came up with the "Jeans hanging off the arse" look? It's ridiculous!!
This trend did not originate from hand-me-down clothing. The saggy pants trend stemmed from prison wear, because the inmates aren't allowed to wear belts. As a result, people who felt inmates were people to emulate copied this trend outside the bars.
In regard to your update Perez I would like to correct that misconception because I actually work for the US Courts. The first example of sagging your pants was in prisons as a way to distinguish those willing to trade sexual favors for protection and those that were not willing to engage in homosexual behavior. This trend eventually morphed into a way to conceal weapons and drugs. The actual reason why it's done today, is completely beyond me. However, since you pride yourself on accurate reporting in some capacity, I wanted to correct this error and not further add to the spread of bad information.
Re: marce – You're right. Sagging meant that you were already another inmate's boytoy. It signaled to other inmates that you have already filled the role of "bitch" for a lucky inmate.
Freed is absolutely right. This trend did not start as a result of wearing hand-me-downs. It began in the prison system partly because inmates were not allowed belts, or ropes (suicide prevention) to keep their pants up. It later grew into one inmate letting others know that he is, well, looking for some action.
As a teacher in Detroit, I often see this trend. I simply remind my students where the trend started and tell them that I fully support their lifestyle. Pants are then pulled up quickly.
Sometimes I also point out to them that it looks as though they have pooped their pants.
Actually, I know there are some disputer origins of sagging, but the most prevalent reason given is that it's a fashion statement that started IN PRISON. People in prison taunted other inmates by sagging their pants in a "come and get it, I dare you" kind of way.
Personally, I don't care what gender you are, but the correctional facility fashion is not a trend I plan on following.
There is no such thing as poor people in the US. The government gives everyone money! Everyone! No one is poor. It's how they choose to use their money. I work in the south bronx and I can tell you that there is no such thing as being poor.
nope nope nope. i call bullshit. when i was in highschool ( 1985 ! ) me and 4 or 5 other skaters started wearing our pants bigger and lower. we grew up in texas burbs, so it wasnt like we were copying something we saw in the hood. we just did it because we wanted to and we thought it was cool. and we looked like idiots. which is what all these " saggers" look like. idiots. i saw some mexican kid with his pants down under his ass the other day. dude should have put on clean undies before he went out because he had streaks going right up the back of them draws. nasty.
It's not about the poor. It's about jailers who wear prison-issued (bad fitting) pants and are not given belts, so the pants fall down. So, low riders are a tribute to inmates. Isn't that wonderful????
Who fucking gives a shit. These little shitheads have such little to express other than their nasty little asscracks hanging over their waistbands. Jesus Christ — the United States is such a gulag when THIS is a right we're desperate to defend. Perez, do you ever use logic when you react to news items, or do you just start yapping like a brain-damaged Yorkie? Personally, I'm sick of having to see this stuff where ever I go — what about MY freedom of expression to not have to be subjected to this crap? Huh? Or do only ghetto scum have freedom of speech?
I was under the impression that baggy pants were a nod to people in prison who had their belts taken away from them so their pants sagged…and do rags are a nod to burglers who wear pantyhose over their head to hide their face on the security camera. Just an FYI-thats what old white people think of your clothes. You may not care what we think about your clothes-but maybe thats why they treat you weird.
Your update is wrong. It has nothing to do with hand-me-downs. It's from prison, where they don't let you have belts.
The droopy drawers look did not start with hand me downs. It started when guys wanted to look like people in jail (nice choice of role model, isn't it), where belts are taken away. Why guys want to make themselves look like criminals is beyond me.
This is the most disgusting thing. This is not attractive, and makes people look like they are ignorant.
************ALSO, this look did not ORIGINATE from "hand me down clothes", it originated in PRISON. Look it up**********************
Flint, MI made perezhilton.com
Wow.
well i suppose that no one bothered to look into the fact that "sagging" actually started in prisons where if a man wore his pants lower than the proper place it meant he was looking to get sexually harassed from behind…and i can't make this stuff up. my cousin did her thesis on it. so i do wonder if all of these hip-hoppers know this, and if they did if they would glorify it so much?