Not Okay! Obama's Mother Posthumously Baptized By Mormons
We know that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints can get sorta wackadoodle at times, but this is downright ridiculous!
Turns out certain members of the Mormon Church went ahead and had President Barack Obama's late mother, who was Catholic, posthumously baptized last June!
Are they even allowed to perform baptisms without the permission of the family????
Stanley Ann Dunham, who passed away in 1995 from cancer is listed on the Mormon Church's genealogical site FamilySearch.org as being baptized on June 4th of 2008.
Kim Farah, official spokeswoman for the LDS Church has issued the following statement on the illegitimate baptism:
"The offering of baptism to our deceased ancestors is a sacred practice to us and it is counter to Church policy for a Church member to submit names for baptism for persons to whom they are not related. The Church is looking into the circumstances of how this happened and does not yet have all the facts. However, this is a serious matter and we are treating it as such."
The White House has chosen to make no comment on the controversy, respectfully.
[Image via WENN.]
Re: PHisanidiot – There's a HUGE difference in praying for someone's soul to go to Heaven when they are recently deceased, and converting them to another religion they did not choose to embrace while they were alive.
They do this type of thing all the time. In fact, they got in some major hot water with the Jews for baptizing Holocaust victims after they died. Of course, I think it's a lot of cult hooey, and doesn't mean a thing, but it's extremely disrespectful of a persons faith in life, and I think that those that practice this will have a special place waiting for them after they leave this earth.
I am so glad I left that horrible "religion" after doing some research on that fraud Joseph the lying piece of shit Smith. I am in the process of getting my name removed from their records. They are a racist homophobic lying cult!
Re: Ultra –
You are such a liar! You know that you are Mormon….
Re: celebgossjunkie – I find it interesting how you are so quick to judge that they are "converted to another religion without choosing", when it is very simple Mormon doctrine that even after the ordinance of baptism is performed, they still have a choice to accept it or reject it, so why dont you get your facts straight. And by the way, I wasnt comparing prayers for the dead to baptisms for the dead, I'm just stating the fact that Catholics actually practiced baptisms for the dead, just as the Mormons do, but then they changed their practice into the doctrine they now use as prayers for the dead.
ho jesus! freakin crazies!!!
BO has dabbled in religion as a Muslim, a Baptist, an atheist, and well, most recently, one might say as an Episcopalian. Remember, it took him a good few months to even go to Sunday services, the first being Easter Sunday, so obviously, OSAMA is hypocritical and a back-peddler. I'm still waiting for answers on the following: Has Obama figured out the names of all "57 states" yet (a quote from a 04/08 town mtg- he said [since being on the campaign trail he's been to just about every one of the 57 United States])? Why haven't the pix of the Air Force One fly-over been released yet, pix that cost tax-payers ~$350K? And before you say he had no idea ahead of time - a boss is responsible for all of the workers) But I digress. He hasn't disclosed "which heads will roll," it's been 2 weeks. Why not show an official copy of his birth cert. proving he's American vs. uploading one on the web? (photoshopping?!) And lest we forget, his illegal aunt who has a bench warrant out for her arrest b/c she failed to show in court challenging her citizenship -now a fugitive & OUR system/tax $$ are caring for another illegal alien. Nothing sticks to this teflon messiah." What a double standard vs. GWB. At least when he spoke/mispoke, he could laugh at himself. But he sure didn't need a teleprompter, let alone 50 when traveling overseas. Nor did Clinton, or Regan. Even when Osama uses teleprompters, his speech his riddled with "uh"s. I'm REALLY scared for this country.
I don't even think family members should have that right. It should be up to the deceased. I am not buying the sacred thing because to Catholics, our religion is sacred and to baptize someone without their consent is pretty much taking a piss on them after they die.
Re: mduck – if you dont believe the ordinance is really true then what does it matter? if that's the case then its just a person taking a bath and saying they are taking that bath on behalf of someone else. Who freakin cares? Now, if the Mormons are actually the true church like they claim to be, then I can promise you that all those Catholics and Jews and whoever else are getting baptized by them, are happy that those baptisms are happening.
Ha if Mormonism is just some fake, wacky cult then why do you guys care so much? Do you have nothing better to do than rip on other people's religions?
If I was the Prez I'd be PISSED! The NERVE of these religious freaks.
Re: Liberals Destroy – Thanks for calling yourself 'Liberals Destroy.' It allowed me to skip forward without wasting my time bothering to reading anything from one with a handle so civil, thoughtful, objective, receptive, fair and open minded. And I'm mostly a moderate conservative.
Re: P_Honey – If I was the "Prez" I'd also be pissed for being called the "Prez"
Seriously? Perez, if you would research a church before attacking it you would know that if someone dies within 5 years only family members can baptize them. You don't know anything about it. I can't believe you, of all people, would be so critical of others' beliefs and life styles.
Odd to see so many people who hate the Mormons when Mormons don't hate anybody. WWJD?
that is so gross and wrong, i always knew Mormons were evil.
Wierd. I'd be pretty pissed because Mormans are freaks.
Re: HungUpBoyToy – A Morman who likes Madonna! lol.
Re: jebjeb – No way. Mormans say they are so godly but they changed the Bible and twisted it into some strange thing they call the LDS church. Many mormans (not all) are definitely a little coo coo. But one onf my best friends is Morman and my cousin is morman, so I can't really talk too much shit on mormans. But for some reason, everytime I go into a morman household, I fell a coldness that only happens when I'm in a huge church…don't know why but strict Mormans give me the creeps.
Oh boy, jeez-ass key-rist and and the latter day shits! Just another moron cult trick! As if ANY of this ridiculous phony pseudoreligious bullshit was real. I think I'll visit a mormon cemetery and piss on the graves as MY religious rite of baptism!
Re: jebjeb –
You can say I am being ignorant and hateful all you want, but still avoid the main issue at hand (at least what was bugging me, and I am guessing everyone else). Who gives a shit if a family member requested that their dead family member be baptised….that is completely different, if they want to do that, then that is fine…whatever. HOWEVER - The issue at hand is WHEN THEY DO IT AND IT IS NOT REQUESTED BY THE FAMILY MEMBERS! You seem to be avoiding my examples of the Jews that died in the holocaust getting baptised and all of the anger their relatives expressed towards it, or other people (like Einstein, Anne Frank, Joan of Arc, etc.) being baptised when IT WAS NOT REQUESTED BY THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS! You are missing the whole point. It isn't that someone in their family requested it, a good amount of the time (at least when it comes to big names), it wasn't requested by family members and the LDS just decides to do it. And yes, my mormon friend doesn't go to the mormon church because of the people there and he doesn't agree with a lot of the practices.
WTF??? have they gone completely mad??? you can't baptize dead ppl!!
Kind of insulting but it doesn't REALLY make a difference
THIS IS ALL MADE UP
Re: Nickysue – Hes doing an okay job right now actually. Give the guy a break, he has a lot to do and all the bullshit left by the bush administration, its not going to be perfect.
I see him as an FDR figure, cleaning up all the mess made by Hoover.
Its just history repeating itself.
anyway, this is disgusting and insulting. they need to notify the immediate family before they do anything like this.
Dont Catholics baptize their babies? I hardly believe a baby can carry the weight of consent.
This is just a baptism for the dead…yes this is what they call it. They are very common and it doesn't matter who you are. If the LDS church can get your name they will baptize you after you die no matter what your religion or beliefs. I know this is horrible….and the face that the mormon church is "looking into it" is crap. They do it daily to everyone….the LDS church has no compassion for what people choose to believe even in death it is absolutely horrible and sick!!!
Here in lies the problem…babies obviously can not make a choice to be baptized, and neither can dead people. The LDS church is saying they only do this for people who have had family members request it…well if you die and are not LDS chances are you didn't want to be and DIDN'T request it. Here's the funny thing…you can't request NOT to be baptized when you are dead….think about it. Like I said earlier NO RESPECT is given to anyone by this church, and they make it pretty damn obvious!
Mormons are definitely a secretive and bizarre cult. They believe you need 4 secret handshakes with 4 secret passwords to get into heaven, and they wear secret underwear with secret marks sewn on them. Oh no! They're not strange at all!
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it sickens me at how ignorant and mean people are when they hear something that they do not quite understand. first off, do your research before you make a comment because all of you guys i know hate it when people judge you when they know nothing about the issue. second, mormons do not hate blacks! i am mormon and black and have never had any issues. third mormons are not polygamists, yes it is true that they were but that was because on the treck to utah their numbers were dwindling and they needed to reproduce. of course they were not gonna have sex outside of marriage so that is why they created it. they ended it when utah came into the united states–those people on the ranches and what not are not mormons and the church does not support polygamy in any way so people…get facts before you say stuff…
Re: art20987 – you clearly never paid attention in church services and nobody forces anyone to do anything oh yea and are most accepting and loving group of people you will ever meet
Re: simplifyinco – those "secret undewear" are underwear that married people wear so they know to dress modestly…example: the tops they wear have higher necklines so cleavage isnt hanging out everywhere and 4 secret handshakes really? how do you people expect equality between all people when we still choose to discriminate against a group because we do not agree with they way they live…
Re: thtswutshesaidlol –
Oh my no they are not. I live in Utah. I live in the MESIAH. They are not. Some are. Others, however, most actually, are extremely rude and judgemental if you aren't LDS, which is not only distasteful but extremely unattractive. I also find baptisms for the dead the most offensive thing ever. No one has any right to desicrate the dead, especially their SOULS. They did baptisms for the dead for ANN F-ING FRANK! COME ON!
WTF? How can you baptize people who are already dead and buried?
GAWD, Obama is so gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!!!
living in utah you brush up against mormons more often than not. they are human and are prone to human faults. not every person is perfect. the doctrine that the mormons teach is love in general. do not fault the whole religion for the acts of one or two individuals who have left a mark on you. you cant know something entirely. why judge a religion that you may not understand? you'll find many strange practices in other religions and other cultures.
there is also a belief of a "veil" when you leave the spirit world and come to earth to take on a body of flesh. the veil prevents you from knowing anything in the spiritual existence before the time that you came to the earth. so it makes sense that once you die and your spirit returns to the spirit world that you come to a remembrance of things that you had forgotten. it is this that spurns the baptisms of the dead. if you suddenly had a view of the world that is completely different, maybe you would make different decisions. that is what it is based on.
to tell you the truth, i dont mind getting all the help i can get. if someone thinks that they can save me, then so be it. its worth a shot, in my mind.
I don't think you all understand: His mother does NOT by any means have to accept the baptism. But considering as she is in heaven now, she probably knows it would be very stupid to decline it for the LDS Church is the true church.
If people actually read about it, from legitimate sources-such as the official church website, I think you could get your facts straight and not judge so harshly.
I am a PROUD mormon. Call me a wack job, or say I worship in a cult, but it's not true. And I know that.
I cannot wait for the millennium when everyone else gets to see the truth as well.
Re: KOOL KID – Haha. That's funny because my friends sister is gay, and guess what her family is mormon! They don't hate her.
One of my best friends is black, and guess what he IS mormon.
Everyone is so quick to hate. You obviously do not understand the LDS religion at all.
Re: debbiedoesnothing – Hahaha. That's a lie.
It's so funny to me how everyone thinks they know everything about mormons, when in reality they know NOTHING.
Re: celebgossjunkie – They still don't have to embrace the religion. They still have free agency. All it is, is giving them the opportunity. They are NOT forced into anything.
Re: Liberals Destroy – Re: jebjeb – Thanks for being one of the only people on this entire site that isn't ignorant and full of hate. And despite the fact you aren't mormon you still stand up for us!
You are amazing!
I saw a PBSumentary and it showed how they have young people line up and enter this ginormous pool-size baptismal fount (two-story, perched on the backs of oxen statues) and get baptized in proxy for the dead. Then they just go to the back of the line and do it again. (Just realized how crazy this sounds as I'm typing it.)
It certainly makes you understand why they built and heavily market ancestry.com.
hey im a mormon and i think thier actions are justified
Does anyone know if there is a way to get our family members removed from this site? I have brought this up to our family and we have found several of our deceased family members on there, yet not all of them. And this has just become very upsetting for all of us.
Re: DupaDude – Interesting, that sounds exactly like the baptismal font in solomons temple..they must have been "crazy" in the bible times as well.
My mom was friendly to the Mormons while she was alive, and they wanted more information about her after she died so they could baptize her, even though she refused to be converted while she was alive. PLUS they wanted to baptize my completely non religious father who died in 1984. My sister and I said NO! Sneaky, conniving soul suckers.
HEY, MORMONS AREN'T FREAKS!!! THEY'RE LESS WEIRD THAN SCIENTOLOGISTS IN MA EYES!
Mormons are crepy piece of shit!
They lie are totaly dishonnest and dont know a shit about their own religion and cant agree on its contain. They basicaly preach a cult htey odnt know a shit about!
They are all member of a sect and the mromons are sect memebers.
it isnt a religion at all but a sect
they od nto follow the bible nor the new testament at all
they add to what existed and put in osem shit forom the franc macon whom joseph smith was in contact with when he started his shit
he never had a visoon as achild he made it up and wrote abotuit 30 years after.. which prove its all a lie.
and htey laso changed with time whom he saw in his vision,
fiorst there was one then there was 3 then there was 2…
they ahve no prayer per se and no religious ceremony at church.
all they have is a bad copy paste of the crhistina cult and they really piss on the real ceremony
They have no knowledge and no understanding of christianity and know nothing at lal about the christian and cathlic cult.
They do not beleive that the apostles, those around Jesus were legitimate and htat they could baptise people!
and conmclude tha tlal priests in the chruch cannot baptise anybody! a tricki and shity way ot excuse the shit they od to dead people and to avoid expalinign why they odnt folow main stream christianism.
So what they say is that Jesus isnt main stream and couldnt baptise people and that the Holly spirit didnt workled and that none of the apostles were baptised in jesus time nor able ot baptise other. OH YEAH! but them! they can!
oh yeah!
so ita a cult absed aorudn joseph smith, as new jesus and each odf thos emother fuckler æpseudo prophete elect one another when needed with lots of cahs in the pocket.
they buold temples that cost hundreds of million dollars, like if jesus needed money to show himself.. totaly in contradiction wiht the word of christ.
They do not ebleive in God nor in Jesus, all they beleiv ein are fakles shit and fake doctrines and loads of BS pseudo data they fill their breians with and cant cope nor understand. each wikl graps a bit of this and anothe rof that buit none of them know the whole doctrine.
they also got guys fuckign around fo reproduction onlty but htat you cant see cause they are.. invisible! PFFFFFF! bahahahhaa!
they also go into fuckign their own daughters, and doing polygamy. officialy not aprouved but in reality very common.
it was introduced by J smith and friends cause they wanted ot fuck around, and joseph was very "asked" by woemn and atracted to very very pyoung one as well, so he introducved that one.. only his wife get so pissed off at him when she was told he had married 3 women withotu teling her first! that she threatened hi wiht geting divorced, so he ddecided to remove it. only his friends didnt aprouved cause they were realy wenjoying it.. those perverted pigs! so they reintroduced it as soon as he died! and kept it on for a very long time. it was removed less than 20 eyars ago, butis still beign practiced by many also marriage withing the family betwen a father and his daughter(SSS).
they take all the money of memebers andthats what this secte is about: MONEY: you can aLSO SEE IT IN THE FACT GTHAT THEY BUILDED MUCH CHRUCHES AND MOST TEMPLES AND THE BIGGEST AND MOST COSTLY ONES IN CA… not in a por state oh no, but where hollywood is and all chic and gold industries.
they want money.
They ahve no respect for themselves and for other religions and are total slut for their cult, they will lie about everythign jsut ot get oyu in.
Oh and the baptism of the death is totlay ilegal even acordign tyo their own cult an dno it is not alrigth to baptise dead people and i tisnt alrigth ot baptise peole died in concentration camps as they were taken away all their rights as a living, all their body and mind was mutilated and no they od not need on top of that ot also have their soul tortured an dmutilated after their death!
enoug is enough!
assholes!
this is so incredibly disrespctfulla nd outrageosu and the fuker mormons who come here and dedfend that practice are the worse scum on earth.
refusing thto see that this practice is evil is sayig yeah to satanism.
Only one cult on earth practice that kind of shit ot manipulate wiht souls of dead people and thats VODOOO!
AND YEAH, THIS MORMION PRACTICE IS DIRECTLY TAKEN FORM OBSCURE RITUALS OF 3 FRAMC MACONIC LINES, WHO WERE INSPIRED BY VODOO PRACTICES! the baptism of the death are vodoo rituals.
the fontain on back of buills are franc maconic ritual with the bull as symbol, taken form egyptian symbiolism as all know htat franc macon took all their inspiration form the new discoveries made in Egypt and the interest of napoleon for the pharaos.
thats all there is to it.
solomon never baptised the dead. water was taken as a spiritual symbol an dnot as a mena ot baptised dead poepl but to call them back and use them and thats what mormons try to do in all ignorance of the actual rituals.
mormonism is a fake and a joke. their name is stolen from the name the first knigths who took to Jerusalem had, and whoalter on became the Teplars. All in them is taken form others and put togethe rin such a BS way that none of them knwo whats the head and the tail of it!
Mormonism is XEROX religion.
they dotn beleive in anythign they are jsut brianwashed htey ahve no faith at all.
they are like robots wiht a plastic smile glue on their shity faces.
Fill with lies from top of the head to toes.
and no Jesus didnt changed the text, je made a new testimony of God, he told the time had changed and that now the message was a message of love. His message is the new arch of alliances, the new covenant that anihilate the past ones.
Get over it!
and no, you cant jsut coem with oyur news foudn "knowledge" imported by tyravelign franc maxcon send as missionaries ot the new world, and opla! pretend you are nwo the new coveneant after jessu, jsut out of oyur deep deep ignorance of what oyu are dealign with and be taken fofr the new messia by a bunch of lost farmers who didnt knew better.
thsoe who defend mormons ad mormonisms are lost brainwashed kids who ahve been preprogramed ot od so and evengiven order to do so as a duty, by their loccal president!
LOLOL
you are so laughable at!
Re: Ocean – First off, kudos on your spelling and grammar, clearly your one educated individual. Second off, if you really believe that Mormons dont know or understand Christianity, as stated in the New Testament, I, being a Mormon, would love for you to give me one example, or doctrine practiced by Jesus, or taught by him, in the bible that we don't practice. At the end of the day, I think you'll realize that Mormons practice bible teachings more then the majority of other Christian sects.
you are gangrene to human kind and all oyu do is wrong.
Nobody had the rigth to baptise soemoen else without askign tha tperosn. dont forget the free will given to us by God!
and no it isnt a smal thing, it matters a lot as it is disrespectuous and careless and you dont have the rigth ot mess up wiht other peoples identities. would oyu like satansit cults ot mess with oyurs? and oyur prophetes naems and pictures and makes some rituals in the dark? hmm?
You are all totaly unable to think on your own.
you are all of oyu deeply unhappy but you wont admit it.
and ypua re haters too oyu had doctrines worse than hitlers ones about race segfragatiosn that oyu only removed less than 20 years ago when it became knwon to the world and oyu had sevderal human rigths organisationa nd anti segragation organisation ad human chart on oyur ass abotu it
then oyu let it go liek it wa sosme kinf of enligthment fom your fucking pseudo prophpjete1 but truth os tha toyu still prcatice it an darenot much for black an dfor colored people in genenral! you ahd a rule of how ot look at osmeone and even if they had balck blood or foreigner (non white) blood 3rd generation and mixed, youw ont accept it as mormon!
the order was to look at the color of the skin between the index and the tummy to see if the person was mix blood or not!
but now oyu jump with a vengeance on the latinos and balck and asiate cause they are so many! and oyuwish to can get bigger that way! Asshole!
now they have money the balck even get predsidents, so now they are fuckign interesting for oyu huh!?
aND OYU DENY AND DENY AND DENY EVERYHTIGN THAT OY WORSHIPED NA DVENERED A FEW YEARS BACK AND SAID IT WAS GOD WORD CAUSE IT WAS THE PROPPHETE WORDS!
are oyu ashame of it now? or jsut hidding it?
oh an dwhat abotu the official (betwen mormons) accord that missionaries girls must open they corsage so men can see their breasts a bit ot be more atractive when recruitign new ones,. hmm?
oh and also women momrmosn coming ot church must ocem wearing very shwoing dresses so ot keep the new comers ot come back again and again.
mmmmmmm
so spiritual! so non mundaine!
youi are jsut a macho money making cult and secte who is forbidden in 90% of the european countries and who opress women totaly!
hello idiot oyu cant know waht jesus is about since oyu never read it you only read mormons version of it so oyu are an ignoratn topo bad for oyu
and beside there is a difference ebtween typing errors and gramatic msitakes, but oyu wotn know the difference either cause oyu are such an idiot but when oyu odnt ahve arguemnts so oyu got ot fall to the lowest ssophisme.
get it on dude!
Re: PHisanidiot –
oh thats so funnmy, a mormon who got no argumentation to can argue with, as always, adn who resort ot personal attacks,. LOLOL
you do not practice th eholly sacramwents
you do not practie what Jesus told oyu to dont follow dfaulse apostles and faulse prophetes
you do not folow Jesus word to od not add a single word to his scriptueres.
and oyu are never praying nor profesing his message but only th emormon book and joseph smith.
Re: Ocean – Last time I checked, the version the Mormons read is the King James Version..is there some other "real" bible out there so we can find out who the "real" Jesus is? (please note the sarcasm)
Re: Ocean – Please be specific about which "holy sacraments" your talking about. You're right, Jesus did say not to follow false prophets, but the bible also said there would be true prophets in the last days. So the concept of following prophets in our time is in no way forbidden by the bible. And your complaint about not "adding to the bible" is a complaint that people who don't know the history of how the bible was created often use. Considering the fact that Moses said those same words back in 3000 BCE, if you take those words literally, anything past the book of Deuteronomy would also be be forbidden. Plus, the book of Revelation was not actually the last book written, therefore the epistles of John would also be "adding to" since it was written after.
Re: PHisanidiot –
hello idiots the words of st john were written 2000 years before his time, by the sect that jesus was a member of too.
you odnt know ahsit dude oyu jsut think oyu do.
you are programed to answer as oyu od
you are teached to jsut repeat the same shit
you are a parrot and are unable ot htink on oyur own.
Re: Ocean – Please tell me who "teached" me all this information, because I actually studied all these things on my own, without being taught by anyone in the church. And your completely missing my point. You say we aren't allowed to "add" to the bible, when John himself added words after he wrote those words. He says not to add words to the book of revelation itself, not to the bible, since the bible wasn't even compiled until hundreds of years after it was written. The word "bible" simply means "many books". The books in the bible aren't compiled in chronological order. Why don't you do some studying of your own before you accuse Mormons of not knowing what they are talking about. Then maybe someone will actually see you as a credible source.
Re: Ocean – …and what could I do to make you believe that I am not just writing something that has been "programed" in my head? So I guess if I misspelled everything and made it so no one could understand what I'm actually saying, that would make you believe I'm talking about things that I actually believe and have not been brainwashed to say.
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Re: Ocean – im glad u know how to speak and have clearly done your research on mormons…i am mormon and black and just have to say that everything that you said (well that i could comprehend) was a load of bologna
This is horrible and the worst part of it is they get young teenagers to preform baptisms for the dead. I am an ex mormon and when I was 11 or 12ish I went with my young womens class to do this. Looking back on it I really had no idea what it was or why or who the people were that we were baptizing. I believe I was taken advantage of on perpose. Youngsters don't know any better.
I also think it is a very dumb thing to do. If someone wanted to be mormon they would have gotten baptized themselves before they died. Some of my family is mormon and if they wanted to have me baptized after I died they could so baptizms for the dead really bothers me and I think there should be a law or two against it.
Re: PHisanidiot – Couldnt have said it better myself. I'm thankful to know the gospel and reading everyones responses on here make me feel sad the world is so mislead. Anyway…thanks for standing up and making a difference…
Re: tightnjunk – Haha "a law or two against it"? I really think your missing the point here. Dont tell me that if people really wanted to be Mormon they would have joined while they were on the earth. There are people in Africa who dont even know what Christianity is. Are you going to tell me that since they dont know about Jesus they cant be saved? Is it their fault? Absolutely not. We learn from the New Testament that Jesus visited the spirits in prison to teach them, since they obviously didn't get a chance to hear the gospel while they were on the earth. (1 Peter 3:19, 1 Peter 4:6) God is fair, and you cant be judged upon principles you dont know. And I'm sorry you feel you got taken advantage of, but being 12 years old, I'm fairly certain you could have said that you didn't want to go and do the baptisms. Please dont blame the church for your ignorance.
Re: PHisanidiot- I am just trying to say that it is completely disrespectful to baptize someone that is dead first of all because they can't do anything about it if they have a problem with it, wich I'm sure they would as mormonism is a sham, second of all because you don't know that they would have wanted to be baptized and not to mention it is so disrespectful to go against their former religious beliefs just so that you can think that you are "saving" them. It is not doing anyone a favor. Mormonism is hardly christianity it twists everything from the bible to fit their beliefs so that all their wacky teachings can make sense. Mormonism is evil and manipulative. It has so many of my friends brain washed, it has so many of my family members brainwashed and it kills me that people are giving up their lives so that they can go to this alleged place called heaven. Maybe you need to read up on Mormonism. Also saying that I couldn't have been taken advantage of like that when I was 12 is saying that 12 year olds can make the descision to have sex or not. 12 is not an age where you can make descisions like that. I didn't know what I believed when I was 12. 12 year olds are kids, when you were 12 you were a child not an adult.
Re: tightnjunk – How is it disrespectful when its very basic Mormon doctrine that the people that are dead have the option to accept or reject the baptism that was done on their behalf? You're acting as though the church says that we force them to get the baptism done and they have no option. Thats not it at all. THEY HAVE THE CHOICE. And its very easy for you to say that we "twist" the bible around to have it make our "wacky" teachings sound right…but please give me a few examples. Too often I hear that but then no one can actually back it up with solid facts. And your completely right, age 12 is no where even close to adulthood. But think about it, by age 12, some kids are learning algebra, biology, and other pretty intense subjects. I think the majority of 12 year olds, when taught the simple teaching of the fact that Jesus says for everyone to be baptized, some died without that act, so we help them along in the process if they didnt have the option while on earth…I think thats a little more of a simple principle then any algebra equation.
Re: PHisanidiot – They are dead they can't make that choice when they are dead especially because they might not have believed in heaven or hell or an afterlife, not everyone believes what you believe happens when you die. There are many other lagitamate afterlife claims that people believe. Some are way more legit than the mornon stance on afterlife that is for sure. And I can think of a few examples. First off the bible says that there is one god; mormons say that anyone can become a god, which means that there has to be more than one god out there. Plus mormons say that the holy trinity is 3 diffrent gods wich isn't what the bible says. Second, the bible says that God has always been god and never a man; mormons say he used to be a man. Third, the bible doesn't say anywhere that god ever had a wife or that he had spirit children with her, wich mormons claim. And most importantly for this conversation, the bible says that you get no second chance after death, no repenting after death and no baptizing after death, wich is pretty much the basis of this conversation. But perhaps my favorite little tweak is when you ask why Jesus drank alchohol if it is a sin, they will tell you it was grape juice back then. What a load of shit. I could go on forever.
Re: tightnjunk – Please give me actual references to all these ideas that you think what the bible is saying. With your comment about the bible saying there is one God, and Mormons believing there are many, the bible is very clear, and its basic history that the children of Israel were Polytheistic. The very word "God" in Hebrew is "Elohiem", which denotes a plurality in and of itself. "and God said, let 'us' make man in 'our' image" -Genesis 1:26. Paul also says that "there are lords many and gods many, but to us, there is only one God". As Mormons we completely agree with this concept that Paul is teaching, we acknowledge that there are lord many and Gods many, but we only worship God the Father, and God the Son(Jesus). With your trinity complaint, I would say the bible is very specific about the Nature of who God is, and his relationship to Jesus. Please read the baptismal scene in Matthew, where Jesus gets baptized by John the baptist, the voice of the Father comes from heaven and says "behold this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased", and then the spirit also descends in the form of a dove. Now if you can honestly tell me, that some how you can interpret that scene of events as God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being one physical entity, then I'd say you have an amazing imagination.
Re: tightnjunk – (continued) To be clear, the word "trinity" wasn't even used until 200 years after Jesus' death and resurrection. The concept which you speak of(the trinity) was started by a man named Tertullian, and then considered church doctrine in 325 AD at the Council of Nicaea. So please dont confuse the bibles teachings with doctrines formulated in the 4th and 5th centuries, hundreds of years after the books in the new testament were written. And where exactly is this teaching that you cant repent after death taught at? What was the point of Jesus visiting the spirits in prison during the 3 days between his crucifixion? Did he go there just for fun? Please read 1 Peter 3:17-20 and 1 Peter 4:6. And Paul teaches us that baptisms for the dead were definitely being practiced in his day. Please read 1 Corinthians 15:29. I'm sure your getting all these ideas of what the bible "says" from your pastor or whomever you discuss these things with, but do me a favor and actually look in the bible yourself and I think you will begin to see the problem with all your accusations against the Mormon Church.
Does it really matter? If you don't believe the LDS church is true, and one of your dead relatives name is on some baptism role somewhere, what does it matter?
If its true - great, if its not true, than its just a list of dead people.
I am LDS, and I really don't get why people get upset. If you don't believe in it - then it should be no more important than any other fictional list.