I don't really see anything wrong with the situation, they were asked to leave private property and refused. I'll respect that certain people of religion don't wish to have homosexuals being affectionate on their property, just like I'd expect them to respect me not wishing for them to come preaching on my property.
That does suck! My husband and I live near SLC. We're going to go to that location and blatantly make out. They probably won't even bat an eyelash because we're a heterosexual couple. Jerks.
they were in a Mormon park-what do you expect to happen? They were looking for trouble, it was not a public park. blog again when this happens in a public park.
Oh Utah. You make me ever proud to live here. /end sarcasm
The area these gentlemen were walking in is part of downtown Salt Lake City, and was public property until the LDS Church purchased it, such is their power here. These men were just walking home from a concert. One was pushed to the ground and handcuffed.
The church claims that public displays of affection are not tolerated no matter what your orientation is, but young mormon couples pose and kiss here all of the time.
It was private property, and the two guys were there to make a statement, and when they were nicely asked to "take it somewhere else" they started cussing out the security guards and refused to leave.
You don't have to agree with the LDS's beliefs concurrent to homosexuality, but they are well within their rights.
FYI: There will be a Kiss - In TOMORROW morning at 9am on Main Street Plaza. Please wear a paper heart on your sleeve. SEE YOU THERE. DO SOMETHING!!!! BE THERE!!!!!
It is private property! Simple as that, they went looking for trouble. They refused to leave private property…which is trespassing…there is no story here unless you want to call these men morons.
As for people confused with the geography, the sidewalk just outside of Temple Square is public property, and it's extremely common to find anti-Mormons holding up picket signs for all to see. Literally thirty feet from the Temple itself.
Some people are trying to make it sound like these guys were walking along the sidewalk on the other side of the street, minding their own business. Nope, they were smack dab in the middle of everything. They could've gone and made out on the sidewalk and all this media coverage would be non-existent.
No foul here, it's private property and they were asked to leave. Try just walking onto any Mormon campus and gay straight or eunuch you will be asked to leave. They went looking for a fight and found one.
i live in utah, and funny enough, yesterday there was a man practically passed out on our back steps at work huffing paint cans or something. he'd been there before, been called out by the security guard to not come onto the property, and was now not only trespassing but scaring us.
we called the police, who brought the fire department over. they didn't do anything about it, didn't even talk to the guy.
two hours later he was still out there, and we called the cops again. they came over, talked to the guy for about a half hour and he refused to leave,
and then they decided to let him go without a problem because "he wasn't disturbing anyone".
maybe if we'd gotten someone to go make out with him it would have been taken care of.
Utah is a theocracy and everyone there is happy with it. It is not nor will it ever be like Miami, San Francisco, Houston, NYC, LA, etc. Going to the temple property and kissing there was a cheap and stupid act of desperation for attention, something I'm sure you, Perez, can totally relate to. There are several other places they can go to express themselves but the temple??? The guards had every right to have them arrested because that is private property and they refused the request to leave the property. Unless you live there or have lived there, you wouldn't understand the culture and dynamics or the power the LDS church has in that state. THERE IS NO SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN UTAH AND THEY LIKE IT THAT WAY. Get over it.
I'm amazed that gay people would bother even trying to live in Utah. What an effed up religious cult state. If I lived there I'd move out on principle, and I'm straight. Utah sucks, and Mormons suck.
Why don't people RESPECT other people's beliefs and religion? It's private property. How do you think WE MORMONS feel about you people judging us so harshly as well??
I don't want to see that shit and don't want my children to see it either! Thank goodness there are still people in the US who have the decency and common sense to know this was wrong. If they want to do it in their own home, that is their business. However, they decided to display disgusting behavior in public! That is natsty! If I had seen that, I would have started loudly screaming something to the affect of "how gross."
Idiots got the negative attention and publicity for which they were looking. Let's take our gay agenda against the Morman Church on their ground. Jerks. Do they really think this is going to help further the gay cause?
Good. It's abou time someone started showing these ignorant jerks that they can't do everything they want everywhere they want. Have a little respect. Do you even know what that word means anymore?
Re: bektoh – Exactly! Instead of them trying to provoke a reaction (which they admitted to doing) they should just return the favor the next time Mormon missionaries come knocking.
I don't want the Constitution to change, I'd rather enforce the rights we currently have. The LDS church has a right to decide who they marry and property owners have a right to decide what to do with their property….even if it is hurtful and offensive to others.
But…what's good for the goose, ya know? I say let's show missionaries how we feel about this behavior. I don't appreciate being bugged at my house midday, so next time I'll get the police involved. hehehehhe.
It's UTAH!!! what do you expect when you are walking through the Mormons church's property?? Honestly, I agree with tolerance but choose your battles guys. I think that these guys were just looking to make a fight and trying to make an issue here.
Is this not like going to the gay pride parade with a shirt saying "men plus women only"?? Let's not try to just stir up the pot, this is just silly.
They deserved to be locked up, they broke the trespassing law. it's black and white here.
Ya know, gays really need to stop finding things to bitch about! This is private property! They can ask you to leave for farting if they want! Get the hell over it! Wah wah is all we every hear from the gay community!
So the entire state of Utah is dissed because a church asked someone to leave their grounds and when the people didn't leave, they were arrested for trespassing? Sounds right to me. If you are asked to leave private property and you don't, you can be arrested. They should have left.
The Mormons do own this part of Utah and god forbid someone does something they don't approve of. Don't worry though not all of Utah hates diversity….come on people kissing someone you love who happens to be the same sex as you does not equal trespassing it simply equals hate when things like this happen…why oh why can't we move beyond this?
I'd have to say they were in the wrong here. It doesn't matter if they're gay or straight, they were asked to leave (fully within the chuch's rights) and they "refused to do so". At that point they WERE trespassing. It doesn't matter where you are, a library, a store, a restaurant, if you are asked to leave by the people in charge of the establishment and you refuse to do so, you are breaking the law.
True story. Only in Utah would a church be able to buy Main Street, thus making it a total pain in the ass to get around downtown Salt Lake. And let's not forget the Downtown malls which are also now church owned.
Kolob…not Cola. And they don't think he came from there, they think that's where you go when you die, like heaven. And it really isn't widely accepted in the church anymore.
It should be, Dear LDS: this sucks. I'm sick of Utah being associated with mormons and nothing else. Utah is actually a really cool, really fun place to live. I moved here two years ago from an ultra "blue" state, and I was scared it would be exactly what all you idiots stereotype it as.. but you know what? Its not. Not as long as you stay away from the LDS church, and have half a brain.
What NOT to do when you are gay? Go on private CHURCH property, and kiss. Why? Because its private property, and they have the right to ask you to leave. Is it fair? Maybe not.. but its law. They broke the law by not leaving when asked.. simple as that. I think the LDS church is fucked up, corrupt, a cult. I think they are bigots, and they are hateful.. but the temple is THEIR property and its not anyones right to disrespect it. I wouldnt want them coming into my Buddhist temple and disrespecting it by blabbing on about Joseph Smith… I would ask them to leave too. If they didnt, I would call the cops. Its the SAME thing.
Utah is great. Utah is beautiful. MOST people in Utah are awesome.. keep in mind, less than half are LDS now… and the half that ARENT? They tend to be VERY Anti-LDS. LDS people suck.. that wont change.. but that doesnt mean the whole state is nothing but retard bigots.
Re: SugarSpunSister –
aaaaactually… for the first time in.. who the hell knows… you now dont have to be a "member" toa bar/club to go drink! WOOHOO! PROGRESS! Sadly.. drinks are still weak as hell.. but hey. I'll take any "Win" I can get.
Re: jimmyjazz –
Perhaps you should educate yourself on What you call Mormons. They aren't called "Mormons" anymore as we are from "The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". We only Believe in the "Book of Mormon" — as well as the bible.
And my husband is not aloud to have more then one wife. We changed that in the church when the United States outlawed it. So, if your thinking we still do that maybe you should google "FLDS" or Fundamentalist of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Which is another church. It has nothing to do with the LDS anymore.
As for the gay couple on Temple Square. They were looking for trouble… and there is always two sides to every story.
Perez, you are seriously a moron.
They were being inappropriate at a church. It had nothing to do with their sexuality. My fiance and I attend church regularly and it is rare that we even hold hands. We are there to be with GOD. We don't need to be all over eachother for that ONE HOUR that we sit and church. They were innapropriate, and they should have either toned down the affection, or left. Period. Utah, and the church, were right.
it was the church's property- the church doesn't believe being gay is okay, so they asked them to leave. it's the simple. the guys were looking for trouble and we all know it.
OMG you people are all wrong for so so many reasons. The "Church Property" they were on is a PUBLIC Walkway the church bought from the state of Utah several years ago. It was a HUGE court battle with the church only winning out ownership under the agreement it remain accessible to the general public. What these two men were doing was not wrong or illegal and there was no LEGAL reason for them to be arrested. The just offended a bunch bigots.
This is the exact kind of reasons I left the church. That and the fact that they consider it the ONLY church of God. They think they are the ONLY ones to have the whole "truth". Here are some very basic questions about this "truth"
1- Why does the church constantly change what it teaches? ex: until 1978 black men were not allow to hold the priesthood (cough RACISTS cough)
2- Why did Joesph Smith teach the Adam-God theory? ADAM=GOD, The church no longer preaches this but if Joseph was a phrophet who spoke with God, then what, did God now change his mind and is no longer Adam?
3- Polygamist - Wow so so many unanswered questions on that topic you just mention the word and it pisses a Morman off….
Perez, you are the biggest hate-monger and the biggest hypocrite. You get on such a dramatic soap box about how homosexuals are judged and persecuted unfairly for their beliefs/orientations, yet the pure venom and hatred that you spew towards the LDS religion is downright repulsive. Gay rights are unquestionable but religious rights are out the door when it comes to you? I hope you realize that you aren't doing the fight for gay rights any favors by attacking other peoples' beliefs and rights. These folks were on private property and they were looking for a fight. How in the world can you expect to have "respect for your beliefs" when you make it quite clear that you don't respect other people's beliefs????? Idiot.
Re: T.Ro – Despite all the bass ackwards cult members who live there, it's a breathtakingly beautiful state, especially for those who enjoy a variety of outdoor activities, despite the strangehold the cult has on the state. I get what you're saying though. I just don't think the cult has a right to use their bully pulpit to keep only those they like in their state when they clearly profit a great deal financially from ALL people from ALL walks of life traveling to Utah.
The mormons are self righteous pricks. But I guess that comes full circle because I would be the first to kick those dillusional fuckheads off my property since I find their lifestyle overtly offensive.
Dear Perez,
Get a grip, these two were trespassing on private property!!
If two guys starting making out on my front lawn and I didn't like it, I can ask them to leave, too.
When they say "we're not leaving", then the cops get called.
Period.
Get over it.
Ciao!
It is called PRIVATE PROPERTY so the church didn't do anything wrong. It is like having a weight loss clinici and not wanting fat people hanging out on the property, LOL! Just because you have an agenda, doesn't mean the entire worlds has to go along.
To everyone of every race, religion, background & preference:
In a show of solidarity towards two of our residents that were so hastily harassed, ticketed and banned from the once public section of main street in Salt Lake City for holding hands and kissing, we would like to organize a public silent protest. This protest will be like none-other.
Details:
Sunday July 19th, 12:00 PM
Bring someone, anyone or anything that you particularly enjoy kissing. At precisely 12:15 PM a whistle and/or bell will be your que to enter the easement and do what comes natural - KISS!
Please pass this along to anyone and everyone. Let's stand up for our neighbors and friends.
The Mormon church really doesn't have a whole lot to do with Salt Lake City besides the area of town that they own. Salt Lake is actually a really beautiful, pleasant and non judgemental place. I couldn't think of a place that I would rather live. The Mormon church however, does own a pretty good chunk of Salt Lake City, which isn't so fair. The part of the city they own used to be everyone's property and a really pleasant area to be in. Now I havn't stepped a foot on in a very long time because I don't like to surround myself around the kind of atmosphere they have established. That is the kind of power I hate and wish the Mormon church didn't have. People who own property do have the right to kick whom ever they want off their property BUT, I strongly believe that if this had been a heterosexual couple they would not have been kicked off. Young Mormon couples get married and take wedding and engagement photos in this part of town all the time. Young Mormon couples hold hands and get affectionate around temple square all the time because it is a special place for them so the fact that they say it was because they were being affectionate and not because the couple was gay is complete, for lack of a better term, bullshit.
I don't care what the situation is, if you are on private property, you respect the owners wishes. And something tells me that if the two men hadn't gotten verbally abusive with authorities, they wouldn't have been in the trouble they were. They got escorted away because they were being assholes, NOT because they happened to be gay.
Kiss-In Demonstration:
Date:
Sunday, July 19, 2009
Time:
12:00pm - 12:30pm
Location:
Main Street Plaza
Street:
Main Street
City/Town:
Salt Lake City, UT
This is total bullshit, there is no way in hell that the church would have demanded that a straight couple holding hands and kissing be removed from their property. Besides everyone knows that the Church of Latter Day Saints is homophobic, just look at all the money they gave to get prop 8 passed.
I am so embarrassed that I actually live in this state. I don't know if you guy are aware of it, but the LDS Church actually owns the TV station that this story was reported on. Talk about unbiased journalism. This state is a joke!
First of all…I don't think it matters whether the property was privately owned or not..we all know that their sexual orientation was a big factor in this controversy, and that's a down right disgrace. Utah…of all states…especially SLC…should be extremely ashamed of themselves. They believe in "good works" and being "godly" yet I see no sign of civility or godly behavior. Their actions were fueled by hate, which resulted in the arrest of these poor innocent people. No one should be punished for expressing their public affection for another..regardless of their sexuality.
Second of all…I think mormons are nuts…women wear long underwear that magically protect them from commiting adultery. Now isn't that crazy? YET! Even though I don't agree with what they believe in..never would I (being Catholic) ever EVER express such hatred as to go as far as getting someone arrested due to their personal preferences, race, or religion.
*Just because someone doesn't believe in homosexuality, it gives no one the right to react in such a manner against them……people need to have a little more tolerance OR not give a flying fuck about other people's preferences…bottom line.
Gay or straight, it's kind of inappropriate to be making out in a church. I'm not religious and even I still wouldn't do that. It's a matter of respect. Sure they were singled out, and maybe being asked to leave was a little extreme, but refusing to do so, and making a big stink isn't going to get their point across either.
definitely the church's decision because it was their property and like the person said
"If you read the story and the comments, another gay couple said they had no problem in the same spot, have never been asked to leave for holding hands, etc. Obviously these two took it further and were doing more than just hand holding and then became abusive and mouthy when asked to leave. Sounds as if they are trying to turn it into a discrimination issue and play the victims"
re liljojo:
Summit County is but a tiny area in the great state of Utah and I would expect it to be more liberal than Tooele or Salt Lake Counties, etc. Utah, as you know, is huge and not very densely populated. Its three main cities are SLC, Provo and Ogden and all are ruled very closely with the (LDS) church. Even though, statistically Utah may be 50% LDS, it is nonetheless a theocracy and while 50% of its total residents might not like it, the rule makers and the government will continue to be largely made up of LDS members. I liked Utah and I loved the LDS community and their commitment to family and faith. My LDS friends never tried to "convert" me and were just as fascinated by the FLDS cults and sects as I was. But you need to face facts - it's a theocracy and it will remain a theocracy until those rascals like Orin Hatch get voted out. Obviously, at least 1% of your 50 percentile of non-LDS residents like it because they're winning the majority vote.
Why are so many people so quick to BASH mormons? Isn't that a bit ironic. The whole thing people are mad at is they feel there is HATE towards gays. From what I have read there is a whole lot of hate towards people for their religious beliefs. Mormonism ISN'T a cult. It is a religion that makes a lot of people very happy. Mormons were persecuted and have faced a lot of hate. I certainly don't see people bashing other religions with half as much anger. If you don't like them, don't be associated with them, don't go on their property (which is clearly marked), don't even think about them. People need to get their facts straight before they start running off at the mouth. How about this everyone, don't promote any kind of hate. Don't be hypocritical. Say NO to HATE of ALL KINDS.
Shut up Mario you douche bag….You continually ban my accounts from posting on this site because you don't like my free speech and only your own. Yet you have the right to do that because this site is private property (even though your still a transparent twat for doing it) and you have the right to kick anybody off for whatever reason. Since your a complete idiot I won't give you the benefit of the doubt in seeing the parallel in you kicking me off and these two idiots getting arressted. Just because your gay, a minority, or someone different for any reason doesn't give you the right to go onto PRIVATE property and dictate how that property should be used and then cry foul just because you are different. Its just sad and people are getting fed up with it. Just ask California voters. This couple was in the wrong when they were asked to leave and did not. A straight couple hooking up whould have been asked to leave as well. ITS CHURCH PROPERTY AND HOOKING UP IS FROWNED UPON! It's not because they were gay and as for the couples being married there kissing? For christ sakes you idiot its a MARRIAGE/RELIGIOUS CEREMONY…but I know your issue there as well. Look Mario when you throw people off your sight because their speech is different then yours you can't bitch when others do the same. Now shut the f up before the state of Utah beats the crap out of you next.
Re: jimmyjazz – Hey Mario you ban me from the site all the time for saying your mom should have stabbed you in the womb with a coat hanger so why don't you ban speech like this guys? its because your a twat that only likes speech like your own. Your such a twat. A wet, smelly, loose and sloppy twat.
Wow, they didn't even publisize this on tv! I live in Utah and was born and raised here. I'm sorry for all the dumb f*cks. I support gays and gay marriage, but I'm not LDS - so there ya go…
i could never imagine there would still be states who would reach the point 2 ARREST a gay couple for displaying affection in public just like any other straight couple would do…and why???because this was taking place in front of a church??? THIS IS THE MOST HUMILIATING EXCUSE ON THE PART OF A POLICE DEPARTMENT I COULD EVER HEAR…EVER!!!! this is the 00's, a century during which such actions are considered 2 be unacceptable,especially for spiritual people of god…i may, as i've previously mentioned, not believe in god but i know one thing…that HE wants us humans 2 show love & tender for our fellow citizens and not destroying their moments of utter happiness…if 2 people of the same sex want 2 be 2gether it means this is want makes them feel happy and complete, it is their right and everybody MUST respect it! @LAST U GUYS WAKE UP!! be mature & let everyone else around u 2 express themselves in any way they think is proper as long as they don't invent in your personal lives..THIS IS CALLED DEMOCRACY & GAY PEOPLE DESERVE 2 RECEIVE IT AS WELL AS STRAIGHT!!
Re: ClearT – I love it! Wish I could be there to participate.
=
Sounds like it was not the behaviour that created prompted the confrontation but rather who exhibited the behaviour.
In June 2003, the Salt Lake City Council set in motion a second lawsuit involving the public’s First Amendment rights on the Main Street Plaza when it voted 6-0 to swap the plaza’s public easement for land owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the west side of town and funds to create a new community center. The vote came seven months after the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on the ACLU of Utah’s first Main Street case, holding that the easement was a public forum with the accompanying First Amendment rights, and that any viewpoint-based restrictions associated with the easement were unconstitutional. Since the Tenth Circuit’s ruling, city leaders struggled to find a way to both appease the desires of the LDS Church to control expression on the plaza and to honor the community’s expectation that the plaza would remain a public forum. Unfortunately, the city chose to protect the church’s religious use of the property and to prevent anyone with viewpoints other than those endorsed by the church to express them on what used to be downtown Main Street.
In August 2003, the ACLU of Utah and the national ACLU filed a lawsuit (see our final amended complaint filed December 2003) asking the federal court to examine everything surrounding the exchange of the public easement to determine whether the city set aside its long-stated and valid public policy for pedestrian access and passage through the Main Street Plaza in order to accommodate the LDS Church’s desire to impose discriminatory restrictions on speech expressed on that property. The brief maintained that the city’s action violated the free speech rights of its citizens and represented an unconstitutional endorsement of the LDS Church. In May 2004, the Utah Federal Court dismissed the case, and that same month, we appealed to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals (see the amended brief we filed in September 2004). In an October 3, 2005 decision, the Tenth Circuit dismissed all of our claims, ruling that the Main Street Plaza is no longer a public forum and that the city’s decision to sell the easement did not violate the Establishment Clause. Unfortunately for Salt Lake City residents, this decision may precipitate the loss of a central public forum of the type that was held in high esteem by our country’s founders who valued, rather than stifled, diverse viewpoints.
Re: jimmyjazz – Hey JJ! The only way I will allow LDS rhetoric on my private property is if they are nude, as in the way God made Adam. If they cannot support my request or disagree with why I make the request, I am clear with them they have no business to conduct with me.
Well the type man Morgan Freeman seems to be I don't believe it…and now find the update is it is TOTALLY FALSE..RUMORS A G A I N!!!
BUT IF it were tru, so what? PEREZ does your DISGUST then mean it will be ok for all of us to say OH GROSS DISGUSTING when you marry your boyfriend?
She is his STEP granddaughter, that means NOT BLOOD RELATION…most likely never grew up around him in the grandpa role..so get over that.
If its the age diff, well, that has been changing for decades now…so we gotta get over that too. If SHE's happy - Im happy for her. (IF it were true)
and him
BUT my usual point on this stuff…they've been SPECULATING about Michael Jackson for weeks now and ppl..well, IDIOTS take it ALL as fact when its NOT yet. Geez, at least wait for the autopsy findings.
RUMORS are just RUMORS. Its hard to come up with real proof on some things. I saw a group go wild having this one star sleeping with Britney Spears JUST becuz they saw them pictured talking in a public bar. THAT IS PROOF OF NOTHING. I get so sick of all the rumor mongering and the ppl that just believe it so easily I could scream.
Re: jakeandmj – NO, its trespassing because they chose to do that - something NOT approved of by the church - ON THE CHURCHES PRIVATE PROPERTY - they asked them nicely to leave…they refused..so they called the police. I DONT APPROVE OF HOW THE MORMONS LIVE…but IT IS THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY and well within their rights. Gays need to quit trying to FORCE their agenda on those that don't want it..on their property no less. ugh.
UTAH scares me. That's probably where all UFO's come from. Someone joked they think their leader comes from a planet called Cola…you know it just might be true!! HEARING about all this and how theocratic that area is…scares me and Im a person of Faith (NOT Mormon obviously) - they sound like a damned X-Files episode no..movie.
Re: JaeIrv – You say your husband can only have one wife - sorry; but all we see about that is MORMONs who marry many women…its on the TV news shows all the time.
UTAH doesn't give a flying fuk what you think, Scat Queen.
It's easy to find trouble when you go looking for it.
THAT'S IS HORRIBLE!!! TRESPASSING? REALLY? THAT'S TRUE BULLSH*T AND YOU KNOW IT???
I don't really see anything wrong with the situation, they were asked to leave private property and refused. I'll respect that certain people of religion don't wish to have homosexuals being affectionate on their property, just like I'd expect them to respect me not wishing for them to come preaching on my property.
SO STUPID! A whole bunch of drag queens need to go there and just start the worlds biggest orgy…
BRAVO!!!!
That does suck! My husband and I live near SLC. We're going to go to that location and blatantly make out. They probably won't even bat an eyelash because we're a heterosexual couple. Jerks.
WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
GO UTAH!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
GO UTAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
GO UTAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they were in a Mormon park-what do you expect to happen? They were looking for trouble, it was not a public park. blog again when this happens in a public park.
Oh Utah. You make me ever proud to live here. /end sarcasm
The area these gentlemen were walking in is part of downtown Salt Lake City, and was public property until the LDS Church purchased it, such is their power here. These men were just walking home from a concert. One was pushed to the ground and handcuffed.
The church claims that public displays of affection are not tolerated no matter what your orientation is, but young mormon couples pose and kiss here all of the time.
It's their private property, they can kick out whoever they want!
I fucking HATE mormons!!
It was private property, and the two guys were there to make a statement, and when they were nicely asked to "take it somewhere else" they started cussing out the security guards and refused to leave.
You don't have to agree with the LDS's beliefs concurrent to homosexuality, but they are well within their rights.
They wanted "to be starting something" with the LDS. More in-your-face tactics that annoy people.
Gay or straight. If you are ask to leave a property thats not yours. Leave. If not. Prove your point from jail.
i hate when things like this happen!!! its just so sad how little tolerance some people have
Re: iwantlotsawieners – Re: rocktaggie – hahahaha tottally!!!
HELLO..ITS CHURCH PROPERTY,AND HOMOSEXUALITY DOESNT BELONG IN A MORMON ENVIROMENT…HELLO,QUIT TRYING TO START TROUBLE…
Re: rocktaggie – hey fuck you!
As stupid is that sounds, Main Street is privately owned. Welcome to Utah.
FYI: There will be a Kiss - In TOMORROW morning at 9am on Main Street Plaza. Please wear a paper heart on your sleeve. SEE YOU THERE. DO SOMETHING!!!! BE THERE!!!!!
Re: Monroe586 – great idea! i'm doing that too!
It is private property! Simple as that, they went looking for trouble. They refused to leave private property…which is trespassing…there is no story here unless you want to call these men morons.
As for people confused with the geography, the sidewalk just outside of Temple Square is public property, and it's extremely common to find anti-Mormons holding up picket signs for all to see. Literally thirty feet from the Temple itself.
Some people are trying to make it sound like these guys were walking along the sidewalk on the other side of the street, minding their own business. Nope, they were smack dab in the middle of everything. They could've gone and made out on the sidewalk and all this media coverage would be non-existent.
I highly doubt thats what happend. This seems fishy just like the Texas situation…
No foul here, it's private property and they were asked to leave. Try just walking onto any Mormon campus and gay straight or eunuch you will be asked to leave. They went looking for a fight and found one.
NEXT!
i live in utah, and funny enough, yesterday there was a man practically passed out on our back steps at work huffing paint cans or something. he'd been there before, been called out by the security guard to not come onto the property, and was now not only trespassing but scaring us.
we called the police, who brought the fire department over. they didn't do anything about it, didn't even talk to the guy.
two hours later he was still out there, and we called the cops again. they came over, talked to the guy for about a half hour and he refused to leave,
and then they decided to let him go without a problem because "he wasn't disturbing anyone".
maybe if we'd gotten someone to go make out with him it would have been taken care of.
i dont think its that unfair
becuz if they were straight
they would still be asked to leave
plus its private property so they HAD to leave
Yeah! Go LDS!!! I'm Mormon as well, and I'd do the same thing!!!!! Go Utah!
Utah is a theocracy and everyone there is happy with it. It is not nor will it ever be like Miami, San Francisco, Houston, NYC, LA, etc. Going to the temple property and kissing there was a cheap and stupid act of desperation for attention, something I'm sure you, Perez, can totally relate to. There are several other places they can go to express themselves but the temple??? The guards had every right to have them arrested because that is private property and they refused the request to leave the property. Unless you live there or have lived there, you wouldn't understand the culture and dynamics or the power the LDS church has in that state. THERE IS NO SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN UTAH AND THEY LIKE IT THAT WAY. Get over it.
I'm amazed that gay people would bother even trying to live in Utah. What an effed up religious cult state. If I lived there I'd move out on principle, and I'm straight. Utah sucks, and Mormons suck.
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH they deserved it .
Why don't people RESPECT other people's beliefs and religion? It's private property. How do you think WE MORMONS feel about you people judging us so harshly as well??
I don't want to see that shit and don't want my children to see it either! Thank goodness there are still people in the US who have the decency and common sense to know this was wrong. If they want to do it in their own home, that is their business. However, they decided to display disgusting behavior in public! That is natsty! If I had seen that, I would have started loudly screaming something to the affect of "how gross."
Idiots got the negative attention and publicity for which they were looking. Let's take our gay agenda against the Morman Church on their ground. Jerks. Do they really think this is going to help further the gay cause?
Good. It's abou time someone started showing these ignorant jerks that they can't do everything they want everywhere they want. Have a little respect. Do you even know what that word means anymore?
Re: bektoh – Exactly! Instead of them trying to provoke a reaction (which they admitted to doing) they should just return the favor the next time Mormon missionaries come knocking.
I don't want the Constitution to change, I'd rather enforce the rights we currently have. The LDS church has a right to decide who they marry and property owners have a right to decide what to do with their property….even if it is hurtful and offensive to others.
But…what's good for the goose, ya know? I say let's show missionaries how we feel about this behavior. I don't appreciate being bugged at my house midday, so next time I'll get the police involved. hehehehhe.
It's UTAH!!! what do you expect when you are walking through the Mormons church's property?? Honestly, I agree with tolerance but choose your battles guys. I think that these guys were just looking to make a fight and trying to make an issue here.
Is this not like going to the gay pride parade with a shirt saying "men plus women only"?? Let's not try to just stir up the pot, this is just silly.
They deserved to be locked up, they broke the trespassing law. it's black and white here.
Perez behaves like a tantrum throwing 2 year old girl!
Ya know, gays really need to stop finding things to bitch about! This is private property! They can ask you to leave for farting if they want! Get the hell over it! Wah wah is all we every hear from the gay community!
I wish I lived near this place. I'd show up in an outfit covered with BIG RED KISS marks all over.
Mario you are a disgrace - stop already you hypocrite!
So the entire state of Utah is dissed because a church asked someone to leave their grounds and when the people didn't leave, they were arrested for trespassing? Sounds right to me. If you are asked to leave private property and you don't, you can be arrested. They should have left.
The Mormons do own this part of Utah and god forbid someone does something they don't approve of. Don't worry though not all of Utah hates diversity….come on people kissing someone you love who happens to be the same sex as you does not equal trespassing it simply equals hate when things like this happen…why oh why can't we move beyond this?
In Utah…that sounds about right. They still think drinking is a cardinal sin.
I'd have to say they were in the wrong here. It doesn't matter if they're gay or straight, they were asked to leave (fully within the chuch's rights) and they "refused to do so". At that point they WERE trespassing. It doesn't matter where you are, a library, a store, a restaurant, if you are asked to leave by the people in charge of the establishment and you refuse to do so, you are breaking the law.
Re: xxx_isis_xxx –
True story. Only in Utah would a church be able to buy Main Street, thus making it a total pain in the ass to get around downtown Salt Lake. And let's not forget the Downtown malls which are also now church owned.
Re: heylola –
That's news to me. Maybe people outside of SLC don't mind it, but Summit county and SLC are actually quite liberal.
Only about 50 percent of Utah is Mormon, so technically, only 50 percent can really like it that way.
Re: Willys Bong –
Kolob…not Cola. And they don't think he came from there, they think that's where you go when you die, like heaven. And it really isn't widely accepted in the church anymore.
It should be, Dear LDS: this sucks. I'm sick of Utah being associated with mormons and nothing else. Utah is actually a really cool, really fun place to live. I moved here two years ago from an ultra "blue" state, and I was scared it would be exactly what all you idiots stereotype it as.. but you know what? Its not. Not as long as you stay away from the LDS church, and have half a brain.
What NOT to do when you are gay? Go on private CHURCH property, and kiss. Why? Because its private property, and they have the right to ask you to leave. Is it fair? Maybe not.. but its law. They broke the law by not leaving when asked.. simple as that. I think the LDS church is fucked up, corrupt, a cult. I think they are bigots, and they are hateful.. but the temple is THEIR property and its not anyones right to disrespect it. I wouldnt want them coming into my Buddhist temple and disrespecting it by blabbing on about Joseph Smith… I would ask them to leave too. If they didnt, I would call the cops. Its the SAME thing.
Utah is great. Utah is beautiful. MOST people in Utah are awesome.. keep in mind, less than half are LDS now… and the half that ARENT? They tend to be VERY Anti-LDS. LDS people suck.. that wont change.. but that doesnt mean the whole state is nothing but retard bigots.
Re: SugarSpunSister –
aaaaactually… for the first time in.. who the hell knows… you now dont have to be a "member" toa bar/club to go drink! WOOHOO! PROGRESS! Sadly.. drinks are still weak as hell.. but hey. I'll take any "Win" I can get.
Re: jimmyjazz –
Perhaps you should educate yourself on What you call Mormons. They aren't called "Mormons" anymore as we are from "The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". We only Believe in the "Book of Mormon" — as well as the bible.
And my husband is not aloud to have more then one wife. We changed that in the church when the United States outlawed it. So, if your thinking we still do that maybe you should google "FLDS" or Fundamentalist of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Which is another church. It has nothing to do with the LDS anymore.
As for the gay couple on Temple Square. They were looking for trouble… and there is always two sides to every story.
Re: Willys Bong –
hahaha.. The funniest things that people come up with about us.
HOORAY FOR UTAH TWO THUMBS UP
Perez, you are seriously a moron.
They were being inappropriate at a church. It had nothing to do with their sexuality. My fiance and I attend church regularly and it is rare that we even hold hands. We are there to be with GOD. We don't need to be all over eachother for that ONE HOUR that we sit and church. They were innapropriate, and they should have either toned down the affection, or left. Period. Utah, and the church, were right.
Oh my god thats so stupid!!!! He got arrested for that! fucking stupid!!
Well i reckon it was homophobia this does suck!
Private property, with a public easement. The City of SLC got their money for the deal, now it's private property.
it was the church's property- the church doesn't believe being gay is okay, so they asked them to leave. it's the simple. the guys were looking for trouble and we all know it.
OMG you people are all wrong for so so many reasons. The "Church Property" they were on is a PUBLIC Walkway the church bought from the state of Utah several years ago. It was a HUGE court battle with the church only winning out ownership under the agreement it remain accessible to the general public. What these two men were doing was not wrong or illegal and there was no LEGAL reason for them to be arrested. The just offended a bunch bigots.
This is the exact kind of reasons I left the church. That and the fact that they consider it the ONLY church of God. They think they are the ONLY ones to have the whole "truth". Here are some very basic questions about this "truth"
1- Why does the church constantly change what it teaches? ex: until 1978 black men were not allow to hold the priesthood (cough RACISTS cough)
2- Why did Joesph Smith teach the Adam-God theory? ADAM=GOD, The church no longer preaches this but if Joseph was a phrophet who spoke with God, then what, did God now change his mind and is no longer Adam?
3- Polygamist - Wow so so many unanswered questions on that topic you just mention the word and it pisses a Morman off….
Perez, you are the biggest hate-monger and the biggest hypocrite. You get on such a dramatic soap box about how homosexuals are judged and persecuted unfairly for their beliefs/orientations, yet the pure venom and hatred that you spew towards the LDS religion is downright repulsive. Gay rights are unquestionable but religious rights are out the door when it comes to you? I hope you realize that you aren't doing the fight for gay rights any favors by attacking other peoples' beliefs and rights. These folks were on private property and they were looking for a fight. How in the world can you expect to have "respect for your beliefs" when you make it quite clear that you don't respect other people's beliefs????? Idiot.
Re: T.Ro – Despite all the bass ackwards cult members who live there, it's a breathtakingly beautiful state, especially for those who enjoy a variety of outdoor activities, despite the strangehold the cult has on the state. I get what you're saying though. I just don't think the cult has a right to use their bully pulpit to keep only those they like in their state when they clearly profit a great deal financially from ALL people from ALL walks of life traveling to Utah.
The mormons are self righteous pricks. But I guess that comes full circle because I would be the first to kick those dillusional fuckheads off my property since I find their lifestyle overtly offensive.
Dear Perez,
Get a grip, these two were trespassing on private property!!
If two guys starting making out on my front lawn and I didn't like it, I can ask them to leave, too.
When they say "we're not leaving", then the cops get called.
Period.
Get over it.
Ciao!
I want to live in Utah on Mormon property just so I can tell the gays to go seek attention elsewhere. Yay!
It is called PRIVATE PROPERTY so the church didn't do anything wrong. It is like having a weight loss clinici and not wanting fat people hanging out on the property, LOL! Just because you have an agenda, doesn't mean the entire worlds has to go along.
people who do something to garner attention or make a statement are basically asking for bad treatment.
Please Join the Kissing Demostration Protest:
To everyone of every race, religion, background & preference:
In a show of solidarity towards two of our residents that were so hastily harassed, ticketed and banned from the once public section of main street in Salt Lake City for holding hands and kissing, we would like to organize a public silent protest. This protest will be like none-other.
Details:
Sunday July 19th, 12:00 PM
Bring someone, anyone or anything that you particularly enjoy kissing. At precisely 12:15 PM a whistle and/or bell will be your que to enter the easement and do what comes natural - KISS!
Please pass this along to anyone and everyone. Let's stand up for our neighbors and friends.
Cheers kissers!
The Mormon church really doesn't have a whole lot to do with Salt Lake City besides the area of town that they own. Salt Lake is actually a really beautiful, pleasant and non judgemental place. I couldn't think of a place that I would rather live. The Mormon church however, does own a pretty good chunk of Salt Lake City, which isn't so fair. The part of the city they own used to be everyone's property and a really pleasant area to be in. Now I havn't stepped a foot on in a very long time because I don't like to surround myself around the kind of atmosphere they have established. That is the kind of power I hate and wish the Mormon church didn't have. People who own property do have the right to kick whom ever they want off their property BUT, I strongly believe that if this had been a heterosexual couple they would not have been kicked off. Young Mormon couples get married and take wedding and engagement photos in this part of town all the time. Young Mormon couples hold hands and get affectionate around temple square all the time because it is a special place for them so the fact that they say it was because they were being affectionate and not because the couple was gay is complete, for lack of a better term, bullshit.
I don't care what the situation is, if you are on private property, you respect the owners wishes. And something tells me that if the two men hadn't gotten verbally abusive with authorities, they wouldn't have been in the trouble they were. They got escorted away because they were being assholes, NOT because they happened to be gay.
Kiss-In Demonstration:
Date:
Sunday, July 19, 2009
Time:
12:00pm - 12:30pm
Location:
Main Street Plaza
Street:
Main Street
City/Town:
Salt Lake City, UT
Re: HeatherLeigh – Right on.
PS: The "private property" they were kissing on is actually main street. A whole street that you can't kiss on? Really?
This is total bullshit, there is no way in hell that the church would have demanded that a straight couple holding hands and kissing be removed from their property. Besides everyone knows that the Church of Latter Day Saints is homophobic, just look at all the money they gave to get prop 8 passed.
I am so embarrassed that I actually live in this state. I don't know if you guy are aware of it, but the LDS Church actually owns the TV station that this story was reported on. Talk about unbiased journalism. This state is a joke!
First of all…I don't think it matters whether the property was privately owned or not..we all know that their sexual orientation was a big factor in this controversy, and that's a down right disgrace. Utah…of all states…especially SLC…should be extremely ashamed of themselves. They believe in "good works" and being "godly" yet I see no sign of civility or godly behavior. Their actions were fueled by hate, which resulted in the arrest of these poor innocent people. No one should be punished for expressing their public affection for another..regardless of their sexuality.
Second of all…I think mormons are nuts…women wear long underwear that magically protect them from commiting adultery. Now isn't that crazy? YET! Even though I don't agree with what they believe in..never would I (being Catholic) ever EVER express such hatred as to go as far as getting someone arrested due to their personal preferences, race, or religion.
*Just because someone doesn't believe in homosexuality, it gives no one the right to react in such a manner against them……people need to have a little more tolerance OR not give a flying fuck about other people's preferences…bottom line.
Gay or straight, it's kind of inappropriate to be making out in a church. I'm not religious and even I still wouldn't do that. It's a matter of respect. Sure they were singled out, and maybe being asked to leave was a little extreme, but refusing to do so, and making a big stink isn't going to get their point across either.
definitely the church's decision because it was their property and like the person said
"If you read the story and the comments, another gay couple said they had no problem in the same spot, have never been asked to leave for holding hands, etc. Obviously these two took it further and were doing more than just hand holding and then became abusive and mouthy when asked to leave. Sounds as if they are trying to turn it into a discrimination issue and play the victims"
re liljojo:
Summit County is but a tiny area in the great state of Utah and I would expect it to be more liberal than Tooele or Salt Lake Counties, etc. Utah, as you know, is huge and not very densely populated. Its three main cities are SLC, Provo and Ogden and all are ruled very closely with the (LDS) church. Even though, statistically Utah may be 50% LDS, it is nonetheless a theocracy and while 50% of its total residents might not like it, the rule makers and the government will continue to be largely made up of LDS members. I liked Utah and I loved the LDS community and their commitment to family and faith. My LDS friends never tried to "convert" me and were just as fascinated by the FLDS cults and sects as I was. But you need to face facts - it's a theocracy and it will remain a theocracy until those rascals like Orin Hatch get voted out. Obviously, at least 1% of your 50 percentile of non-LDS residents like it because they're winning the majority vote.
Why are so many people so quick to BASH mormons? Isn't that a bit ironic. The whole thing people are mad at is they feel there is HATE towards gays. From what I have read there is a whole lot of hate towards people for their religious beliefs. Mormonism ISN'T a cult. It is a religion that makes a lot of people very happy. Mormons were persecuted and have faced a lot of hate. I certainly don't see people bashing other religions with half as much anger. If you don't like them, don't be associated with them, don't go on their property (which is clearly marked), don't even think about them. People need to get their facts straight before they start running off at the mouth. How about this everyone, don't promote any kind of hate. Don't be hypocritical. Say NO to HATE of ALL KINDS.
Shut up Mario you douche bag….You continually ban my accounts from posting on this site because you don't like my free speech and only your own. Yet you have the right to do that because this site is private property (even though your still a transparent twat for doing it) and you have the right to kick anybody off for whatever reason. Since your a complete idiot I won't give you the benefit of the doubt in seeing the parallel in you kicking me off and these two idiots getting arressted. Just because your gay, a minority, or someone different for any reason doesn't give you the right to go onto PRIVATE property and dictate how that property should be used and then cry foul just because you are different. Its just sad and people are getting fed up with it. Just ask California voters. This couple was in the wrong when they were asked to leave and did not. A straight couple hooking up whould have been asked to leave as well. ITS CHURCH PROPERTY AND HOOKING UP IS FROWNED UPON! It's not because they were gay and as for the couples being married there kissing? For christ sakes you idiot its a MARRIAGE/RELIGIOUS CEREMONY…but I know your issue there as well. Look Mario when you throw people off your sight because their speech is different then yours you can't bitch when others do the same. Now shut the f up before the state of Utah beats the crap out of you next.
Re: jimmyjazz – Hey Mario you ban me from the site all the time for saying your mom should have stabbed you in the womb with a coat hanger so why don't you ban speech like this guys? its because your a twat that only likes speech like your own. Your such a twat. A wet, smelly, loose and sloppy twat.
Whatever… I'm from salt lake.. the grounds close at 10 pm.. they're just douche bags
Laaaaaaaame Utah. Get over it mormons.
perez utah is known for hating gays..
Wow, they didn't even publisize this on tv! I live in Utah and was born and raised here. I'm sorry for all the dumb f*cks. I support gays and gay marriage, but I'm not LDS - so there ya go…
i could never imagine there would still be states who would reach the point 2 ARREST a gay couple for displaying affection in public just like any other straight couple would do…and why???because this was taking place in front of a church??? THIS IS THE MOST HUMILIATING EXCUSE ON THE PART OF A POLICE DEPARTMENT I COULD EVER HEAR…EVER!!!! this is the 00's, a century during which such actions are considered 2 be unacceptable,especially for spiritual people of god…i may, as i've previously mentioned, not believe in god but i know one thing…that HE wants us humans 2 show love & tender for our fellow citizens and not destroying their moments of utter happiness…if 2 people of the same sex want 2 be 2gether it means this is want makes them feel happy and complete, it is their right and everybody MUST respect it! @LAST U GUYS WAKE UP!! be mature & let everyone else around u 2 express themselves in any way they think is proper as long as they don't invent in your personal lives..THIS IS CALLED DEMOCRACY & GAY PEOPLE DESERVE 2 RECEIVE IT AS WELL AS STRAIGHT!!
Re: ClearT – I love it! Wish I could be there to participate.
=
Sounds like it was not the behaviour that created prompted the confrontation but rather who exhibited the behaviour.
In June 2003, the Salt Lake City Council set in motion a second lawsuit involving the public’s First Amendment rights on the Main Street Plaza when it voted 6-0 to swap the plaza’s public easement for land owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the west side of town and funds to create a new community center. The vote came seven months after the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on the ACLU of Utah’s first Main Street case, holding that the easement was a public forum with the accompanying First Amendment rights, and that any viewpoint-based restrictions associated with the easement were unconstitutional. Since the Tenth Circuit’s ruling, city leaders struggled to find a way to both appease the desires of the LDS Church to control expression on the plaza and to honor the community’s expectation that the plaza would remain a public forum. Unfortunately, the city chose to protect the church’s religious use of the property and to prevent anyone with viewpoints other than those endorsed by the church to express them on what used to be downtown Main Street.
In August 2003, the ACLU of Utah and the national ACLU filed a lawsuit (see our final amended complaint filed December 2003) asking the federal court to examine everything surrounding the exchange of the public easement to determine whether the city set aside its long-stated and valid public policy for pedestrian access and passage through the Main Street Plaza in order to accommodate the LDS Church’s desire to impose discriminatory restrictions on speech expressed on that property. The brief maintained that the city’s action violated the free speech rights of its citizens and represented an unconstitutional endorsement of the LDS Church. In May 2004, the Utah Federal Court dismissed the case, and that same month, we appealed to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals (see the amended brief we filed in September 2004). In an October 3, 2005 decision, the Tenth Circuit dismissed all of our claims, ruling that the Main Street Plaza is no longer a public forum and that the city’s decision to sell the easement did not violate the Establishment Clause. Unfortunately for Salt Lake City residents, this decision may precipitate the loss of a central public forum of the type that was held in high esteem by our country’s founders who valued, rather than stifled, diverse viewpoints.
…and the conservatives argue against the use of 'activist' judges, unless the tactic gets them what they want!
Re: jimmyjazz – Hey JJ! The only way I will allow LDS rhetoric on my private property is if they are nude, as in the way God made Adam. If they cannot support my request or disagree with why I make the request, I am clear with them they have no business to conduct with me.
Welcome to Utah. Not for the faint of heart. And not a good place to be gay.
Re: amifirst – Maybe Im missing the point..yeah your first I get that..and am SICK OF IT as well…run along now.
Well the type man Morgan Freeman seems to be I don't believe it…and now find the update is it is TOTALLY FALSE..RUMORS A G A I N!!!
BUT IF it were tru, so what? PEREZ does your DISGUST then mean it will be ok for all of us to say OH GROSS DISGUSTING when you marry your boyfriend?
She is his STEP granddaughter, that means NOT BLOOD RELATION…most likely never grew up around him in the grandpa role..so get over that.
If its the age diff, well, that has been changing for decades now…so we gotta get over that too. If SHE's happy - Im happy for her. (IF it were true)
and him
BUT my usual point on this stuff…they've been SPECULATING about Michael Jackson for weeks now and ppl..well, IDIOTS take it ALL as fact when its NOT yet. Geez, at least wait for the autopsy findings.
RUMORS are just RUMORS. Its hard to come up with real proof on some things. I saw a group go wild having this one star sleeping with Britney Spears JUST becuz they saw them pictured talking in a public bar. THAT IS PROOF OF NOTHING. I get so sick of all the rumor mongering and the ppl that just believe it so easily I could scream.
Re: jakeandmj – NO, its trespassing because they chose to do that - something NOT approved of by the church - ON THE CHURCHES PRIVATE PROPERTY - they asked them nicely to leave…they refused..so they called the police. I DONT APPROVE OF HOW THE MORMONS LIVE…but IT IS THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY and well within their rights. Gays need to quit trying to FORCE their agenda on those that don't want it..on their property no less. ugh.
UTAH scares me. That's probably where all UFO's come from. Someone joked they think their leader comes from a planet called Cola…you know it just might be true!! HEARING about all this and how theocratic that area is…scares me and Im a person of Faith (NOT Mormon obviously) - they sound like a damned X-Files episode no..movie.
Re: JaeIrv – You say your husband can only have one wife - sorry; but all we see about that is MORMONs who marry many women…its on the TV news shows all the time.
SUGARSPUNSISTER SAID: In Utah…that sounds about right. They still think drinking is a cardinal sin.
jUST WHAT IS A CARDINAL sin? How is that different from….a sin?
O