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Judge Walker Doubts Prop 8 Ruling Can Be Appealed

| Filed under: Gay Gay GayPolitikArnold Schwarzenegger

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Good!

Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn R. Walker rejected a request to delay his decision regarding Proposition 8 because he doesn't think backers will be able to appeal it as they won't be affected by it or be responsible for putting it into action!

And it would also be denying gay couples their constitutional right to marry each day!

He says of the gay marriage ban's backers:

"[They] point to harm resulting from a 'cloud of uncertainty' surrounding the validity of marriages performed after judgment is entered but before proponents' appeal is resolved. Proponents have not, however, argued that any of them seek to wed a same-sex spouse."

So it looks like the ban's backers can only appeal Judge Walker's decision if Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger or Attorney General Jerry Brown are on board as well.

But both of them have already refused to defend Prop 8 in court and said they didn't see any valid reason why gay couples couldn't marry now.

YES!

Equality for all!

[Image via AP Images.]

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72 comments to “Judge Walker Doubts Prop 8 Ruling Can Be Appealed”



  1. 1

    Perez why were you advocating that this case go to the supreme court a week ago but now saying you hope it doesn't get appealed? You're now saying that neither the people NOR the highest court in the country should be allowed to decide on an issue not expressly included in the Constitution? It seems like you're in favor of the laws being made by federal court judges who are appointed rather than elected and who in no way take into account the will of the people. Oh and who happen to have the same personal agenda as you. Pitiful state this country's in.



  2. 2

    I am all for equality, but the judge being a gay man, well of course he is going to make the ruling he did. Not fair that he is over the case in my opinion.



  3. 3

    It's not actually going to be a good thing if this ruling can't be appealed. For same-sex marriage bans across the country to be deemed unconstitutional (under the U.S. Constitution), the U.S. Supreme Court must make that ruling. If Judge Walker's decision isn't appealed, then the case won't go to the 9th Circuit (and ultimately SCOTUS), and same-sex marriage advocates will have to wait for ANOTHER case and ANOTHER ruling to fight for marriage equality on a national level.

    So it would be good for same-sex couples in California in the short term, but it would screw same-sex couples across the country.



  4. 4

    Huh?

    "And it would also be denying gay couples their constitutional right to marry each day"!

    Get married everyday?



  5. 5

    -
    Equality for all? If this is the case you'd want illegal Mexican aliens to enter the U.S. and become citizens LEGALLY just like every other nationality.
    -
    Your hypocrisy only highlights your stupidity.
    -



  6. 6

    Whether the Judge is gay or not shouldn't be an issue- by making that statement you are basically saying a straight man or woman Judge then would only rule in favor of keeping the ban (which is obviously what you wanted Sharre)… not a win win situation for anyone, then, right? (because gay people are HUMAN and are owed the SAME due justice any other person in this country!) I work at a law firm and Judges are appointed for their ability to make decisions based on LAW not on bias… leave the judge's sexual preferences out of it as it shouldn't be an issue. My uncle is gay and I love him (AND HIS HUSBAND) and I hate to see this injustice. Why is it other people's business who someone decides to love and share their life with? It's NO ONE elses business, we don't judge straight people for the spouse they choose, right? (oh, she's too fat for you, too ugly, whatever).

    As a lifelong resident of California (and a straight woman with children) I am ALL FOR the gay community be given the HUMAN/FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT To marry WHOM THEY CHOOSE at their FREE WILL. LONG LIVE THE "LAND OF OPPORTUNITY" right?



  7. 7

    How do you even JUSTIFY grouping ILLEGAL ALIENS with CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE GAY? Your IGNORANCE is apparent, if you are here LEGALLY you should be allowed to marry whomever you so choose. SIMPLE AS THAT. If you are here ILLEGALLY, you need to get the hell back to your Country. I don't even see how you could categorize the two.. pure ignorance.



  8. 8

    Re: Darveys69 – I agree 100%. I don't understand how someone could possibly feel they have the right to decide who someone can or cannot marry, when it doesn't affect their life in any way. I was heartbroken to hear that Prop 8 passed in California, and I can't understand how someone could have so much hate for gay couples, that they could go into a voting booth and deny them the right to marry. It doesn't have to do with "religious beliefs" - it's bigotry. You can use what is written in the Bible to condone racism, but that doesn't make it right, so why are people using the Bible to condone refusing this right to gay couples? It's disgusting!



  9. 9

    Hot lesbians are ok though.



  10. 10

    THE JUDGE HIMSELF IS A FUDGE PACKER. ISNT THAT SORT OF LIKE LETTING A THIEF, RAPIST OR MURDERER RULE ON THE LEGALITY OF BANK ROBBERY, RAPE OR SERIAL KILLING??????



  11. 11

    LETS FACE IT, BEING GAY IS SICK AND DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY IMMORAL. IF YOU LEAD A GAY LIFESTYLE YOU WILL GO TO HELL. SHOULD CALIFORNIA BE PASSING LAWS THAT CAUSE PEOPLE TO GO TO HELL?



  12. 12

    I love the decision. Now a man can marry as many wives as he wishes, since no one has the right to tell anyone who they can marry. It's only fair.



  13. 13

    Re: Renfamous
    -
    The Equal Protection Clause, part of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, provides that "no state shall … deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"
    -
    Boarding a plane isn't a constitutional right, neither is employment # but to deny people those things based on race or sexuality is an infringement on the individuals civil rights and fundamental freedom it is contrary to The Equal Protection Clause, of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.
    -
    The Supreme Court of the United States ruled the following in its decision, ending laws which banned marriage between "whites" and "colors" in the case:
    -
    Loving v. Virginia- "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival…. To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment."
    -
    cntd



  14. 14

    cntd
    -
    "Why is it so important to call it marriage?"
    -
    Because the same but different isn't equal. Just as taps for blacks and taps for whites where not equal neither is a civil union equal to marriage. Marriage is a social union or legal contract between individuals that creates kinship. It is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged by a variety of ways, depending on the culture or demographic. It is not owned by your church it predates them all.
    -
    "decide on an issue not expressly included in the Constitution?
    -
    You seem to have confused the role of the constitution in this, no one is arguing that marriage is a constitutional right rather that there is a constitutional right to equal access to and protections of the law for what is a basic civil right and fundamental freedom. If the law recognizes marriage of straight couples it MUST recognize the marriage of same sex couples!
    -
    If your confusion lies in the belief that the church owns marriage, that is not the case the US government or State government thereof provides both the license to get married and the marriage certificate which forms the official record of such.
    -
    cntd



  15. 15

    cntd
    *
    The Equal Protection Clause, part of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, provides that "no state shall … deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"
    *
    The Equal Protection Clause can be seen as an attempt to secure the promise of the United States' professed commitment to the proposition that "all men are created equal. It makes no exception for gay people or bi people or transgender people rather it says ALL PEOPLE are to be treated equal giving the same protections of the law!
    *
    The California Constitution itself sets out two ways to alter the document that sets the most basic rules about how state government works. Proposition 8 was put on the ballot through the initiative process. But any measure that would change the underlying principles of the constitution must first be approved by the legislature before being submitted to the voters. That didn't happen with Proposition 8, and that's why it's invalid.
    *
    If the voters approved an initiative that took the right to free speech away from women, but not from men, everyone would agree that such a measure conflicts with the basic ideals of equality enshrined in our constitution. Proposition 8 suffers from the same flaw – it removes a protected constitutional right.
    *



  16. 16

    Re: sharre – sharre, you say your all for equality, but when a judge makes a ruling for equality you seem upset about it. and as for your narrow minded view that the only reason Judge Walker found Prop. 8 unconstitutional was because he's gay, what a convenient excuse. so lets see, in your crazy little world i guess that means that a female judge could not preside over a case involving sexual harassment, or an African American judge could not preside over a case involving race discrimination. i guess we are going to need a lot more gay judges because straight judges can't be trusted to judge cases about straight people, right?. Hmm lets see, since the Roman Catholic Church opposes same sex marriage, are you then saying that the 6 Catholics on the Supreme Court need to disqualify themselves from hearing an appeal should it end up there?



  17. 17

    Re: MarioMonjack – that comes from your dumbass religion scientific studies shows gay is not a choice but the belief in santa-jesus is. face god is science not some walking dead guy



  18. 18

    Re: MarioMonjack
    -
    IS IT HARD WORK BEING SUCH A FUCK WIT ? OR A UNNATURAL GIFT?
    -
    A THIEF STEALS, A RAPIST RAPES, A MURDERER KILLS!
    -
    A GAY PERSON LOVES ANOTHER PERSON OF THE SAME SEX!
    BEING GAY IS 100% NATURAL AND BEAUTIFUL!
    -
    WHAT IS SICK IS THE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU SPEND CONCERNED WITH HATING GAYS, THAT OBSESSION TRULY IS UNNATURAL.
    -
    IF YOU ARE NOT GAY AND/OR INTERESTED IN THE EQUAL RIGHTS OF ALL PEOPLE, WHY ARE YOU SO OBSESSED WITH THIS ISSUE ?
    -
    HEAVEN AND HELL ARE FROM YOUR CHILDISH MYTH BOOK, PERHAPS IF YOU SPENT SOME TIME READING BOOKS IN THE NON FICTION SECTION YOU WOULD NOT BE SUCH A DICKHEAD!



  19. 19

    CA needs to allow gays to marry, divorce, adopt, live together, or live single just like the rest of us. CA is wasting court costs fighting gays rights. This is America the land of the free.



  20. 20

    A great day for EQUALITY!



  21. 21


  22. 22

    Re: kylielover02Re: Aussieone – hey kylielover & Aussieone. i love reading your posts. some of the most sensible on this site. however, i think it's best not to reply to that sorry excuse for a human being known as MarioMonjack. if you read any of his past posts it obviously only comes on this site to try to get reactions from the vile things it writes. it's probably a acne ridden adolescent boy with a tiny dick that no girl in her right mind would ever give the time of day to. either that or some seriously disturbed person who has stopped taking their meds. either way it's a very sad/angry individual.



  23. 23

    Re: wirelessmom – Hopefully one day polygamy, polygyny and polyandry will be legal in the US, but this issue only deals with marriage between 2 people.
    Consenting adults should be allowed to do what they like.



  24. 24

    Re: AttFinch
    -
    16 = Right on :)
    -
    22
    -
    I look at MarioMonjack as a kind of teaching aide.. a prop..
    -
    Some other CRAZY people think being gay is a crime. Love a crime ?
    -
    Some other CRAZY people think gays are going to the mythical hell of their myth book. Love leads to their mythical hell?
    -
    I think his stupidity can be used. He is a tool ;)
    -
    Each to their own though :)



  25. 25

    Civil unions respect a domestic partnership and provide all of the same legal protections as marriage, so why is that not enough? It is not about being unequal, but rather respecting that the word "marriage" to most people is based on the religious belief that it is between a man and a woman. This has been this way since the beginning of the institution of marriage. The fact is that same sex unions aren't the same as opposite sex ones, so why can't they be called different legal names, as long as the legal protections and rights are the same?



  26. 26

    Piggy, why haven't you said anything about Mexico recognizing Gay marriage in all states as legal? The world is so far ahead of the U.S. in so many respects. Well, we've got Reality shows to mush up our brains.



  27. 27

    Re: GeorgiaJules – No, Civil Unions lack over 1000 federal rights that are granted with marriage. Not equal at all. That's why it's not enough.



  28. 28

    Re: Aussieone – Hi my friend keep giving them something to think about. you know I love your posts. Re: AttFinch – thanks I love your posts too P.S Lol you so got mariomacks number for sure.



  29. 29

    Re: tjr3191
    -
    RIGHT ON :)
    -
    Re: GeorgiaJules
    -
    The law can Not and is NOT based on your bigoted religious beliefs!
    -



  30. 30

    Why do these homophobes come to PerezHilton and leave comments? Letting illegal immigrants (not just Mexicans) into the country, is in no way comparable to the issue of gay marriage. If it was a black person on trial, would you object to a black judge. Wait, you probably would. What is boils down to is, do you believe homosexuality is a "status" or "conduct?" That is the root of this disagreement. Religion does not make a strong enough case. Read the bible. Don't watch Fox News. Use your brain and stop regurgitating. Homosexuality is a status, plain and simple. It's who we are, not something we do. Why is there even a debate here? The page is pink.



  31. 31

    Re: suckshitpig – Tired joke. Not helpful.



  32. 32

    Re: Aussieone – Who are you? I love you! :)



  33. 33

    [re=5271919]Re: GeorgiaJules[/re

    Although the institution of marriage pre-dates reliable recorded history, many cultures have legends concerning the origins of marriage. The way in which a marriage is conducted and its rules and ramifications has changed over time, as has the institution itself, depending on the culture or demographic of the time.
    *
    and it's changing again right now. just because you choose to believe some stupid little religious fantasy shit, that does not give you the right to keep a group of tax paying, law abiding, moral and loving people from having the same rights as you. if you take your homophobia and religion out of the equation how does same sex marriage effect you in the least. thousands of same sex couples have already married. what exactly has changed in your life because of it. you are fighting a losing battle. eventually gay/lesbian people will be able to marry all across this great country of ours. instead of spending so much energy and money on hatred and negativity, why not try doing something good for society. maybe help the poor or the needy. give money to those less fortunate than you. i'm sure your made up God would appreciate it if you finally chose to HELP people instead of causing families and their children to have to live as second class citizens.



  34. 34

    Re: GeorgiaJules – Marriage has NOTHING to do with religion. It's a legal institution. I'm sick of homophobes like yourself claiming the word marriage is sacred. I was married outside the church, the word God wasn't mentioned once in my ceremony, and I was MARRIED, yes MARRIED, by the government. My MARRIAGE is not, in any way, religious.



  35. 35

    Re: kylielover02 – Since when was it okay to be bigoted to someone religious, but not to homosexuals?

    Sweetie, I believe that homosexuality isn't a choice, I'm for gay marriage, and I love people regardless of their gender, so shut up and stop thinking all religious are bad.

    Also, sorry, but my belief in God isn't a choice. So stop being so close-minded. ;]



  36. 36

    Re: Aussieone – I read plenty of non-fiction books {Including the Bible}. I also believe in science, and I love gays and am for gay marriage.

    So next time you want to make a comment about someone like that close-minded person you commented, don't attack the rest of us, because it makes you just as close-minded.



  37. 37

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    -
    "This has been this way since the beginning of the institution of marriage."
    -
    That is NOT TRUE different cultures had same sex marriages in the past PNG tribes for one, the ancient Greeks another it goes on and on.
    -
    "This has been this way since the beginning"
    -
    IS NOT a legal or moral argument either, for discrimination, continued injustice nor is it grounds to deny the equal protection granted to all people by the Fourteenth Amendment.
    -
    If it was Women and African Americans would not be able to vote "it had been that way from the beginning"
    -
    African Americans would still be considered property/slaves in the US as ""it had been that way from the beginning"
    -
    YOUR ARGUMENT IS BULLSHIT and so is your myth, which you use to justify your bigotry.
    -
    "The fact is that same sex unions aren't the same as opposite sex ones"
    -
    NO SUCH FACT EXISTS: Marriage is a social union or legal contract between individuals that creates kinship. It is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged by a variety of ways, depending on the culture or demographic. It is not dependent on gender. There is no difference between the social union of a same sex couple or opposite sex couple.
    -
    If the Government and its laws recognizes one it MUST recognize the marriage of the other.



  38. 38

    If any of these people actually read the Bible they'd know that nothing that has to do with Christianity calls it a sin.

    Jesus teaches love and acceptance. That's all. So that's the kind of person I strive to be. If any Christians want to call me a bad Christian, that's fine, because I'm still going to love gays, try and get them to be able to marry the love of their lives, help the hungry, poor, etc. And if the Atheists want to insult, that's their problem for being just as bigoted and close-minded as the religious people they insult.



  39. 39

    Re: MarioMonjackRe: RenfamousRe: GeorgiaJules
    *
    STOP YOUR BULLSHIT!
    *
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.-First Amendment to the United States Constitution
    *
    You where a nation of Christians but you are not a Christian nation, never have you been or never will you be. The Constitution is clear:
    *
    The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, non-religion over religion, or religion over non-religion.
    *



  40. 40

    Re: GeorgiaJulesRe: RenfamousRe: MarioMonjack
    *
    HOW CHURCH HATE CHANGES WITH TIME:
    *
    The word "homosexual" was first used in the very late in 19th century CE. (AD for you) There was no Hebrew word that meant "homosexual." Thus, whenever the word is seen in an English translation of the Bible, one should be wary that the translators might be inserting their own prejudices into the text.
    *
    There was not even a word for 'homosexuality' or 'homosexual' in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, the original languages of scripture.
    *
    So many words in the bible's original text have no know meaning as the words died out. Words like “arsenokoitai” which was once thought to mean temple prostitutes then later thought to mean masturbation. At the time of Martin Luther, the latter meaning was in universal use. But by the 20th century, masturbation had become a more generally accepted behaviour, whereas many Christians were concentrating on homosexuality as a despised activity. New Biblical translations abandoned references to masturbators and switched the attack to homosexuals. The last religious writing in English that interpreted 1 Corinthians 6:9 as referring to masturbation is believed to be the [Roman] Catholic Encyclopedia of 1967.
    *
    THE BIBLE changes to suit the hate of the day.
    *
    RELIGION IS UGLY* GAY STRAIGHT AND BI ALL ARE 100% NATURAL AND BEAUTIFUL.



  41. 41

    Re: kayykatastrophii
    -
    You can believe in whatever you want. I welcome the fact that you support equality.
    -
    I however do not except your statement, that my knowledge (and the sharing of such) that your book is a myth is either bigoted or close-minded.
    I know your god is NOT REAL he is a copy of the Egyptian myth of Horus told to children around camp fires 5500 years before the story of your god was crated. I can list the extensive similarities if you would like ?
    The only real difference between the two is that the story of Horus contains more detail.
    -
    I would also direct you to Human evolution: The Vestigial Traits in Humans like the coccyx, or tailbone, most adults only have three to five tiny tail bones and, occasionally, a trace of a tail-extending muscle. We have them as we share a common ancestor with modern day apes.
    -
    Appendix Structure which presumably had a digestive function in some of our ancestors, like the cecum of some herbivores. In humans, it varies in length from 5–15 cm, and some people are born without one.
    -
    Wisdom teeth Molars that are often useless and sometimes even trapped in the jawbone. Some people never develop wisdom teeth.
    -
    Ear-wiggling muscles Three small muscles around each ear that are large and important in some mammals, such as dogs, turning the ears toward a source of sound. Few people can wiggle their ears, and none can turn them toward sound.
    -
    cntd



  42. 42

    cntd
    Definition of Vestigial:
    Relating to a body part that has become small and lost its use because of evolutionary change.
    -
    Once mankind gained the knowledge that the world was not flat and did not have four corners the reasonable belief in any such fairytale became ridiculous.
    -
    Regarding your statement to kylielover02 and myself:
    -
    The definition of bigot, bigoted: Being a bigot; biased; strongly prejudiced; forming opinions without just cause.
    -
    Given the history of your religion the case for just cause is quite extensive from all the murders, wars and deaths that have occurred in its name to the persecution's of those who didn't believe or had different opinions, to the crimes against science that have held back mankind due to the belief in your religion. So you are wrong to call those who don't believe in your myth bigots. Your religion has caused great harm to mankind, does not fit any such definition. Your god is not necessary to explain life on this planet evolution however is.
    -
    See post 40 for one example of how religious hate changes over time!



  43. 43

    As a few people who actually know how the legal system works have already stated…. you WANT it to get appealed. The more it gets appealed, the more of the US it will affect. Currently it only applies to California, but if it gets ruled unconstitutional in the 9th circuit, then it applies to the 9th circuit. You WANT it to go to the federal supreme court so it applies to the entire US.

    As for people saying the ruling was un-fair because the judge was gay. Does this mean a straight judge would be un-fair because he is straight? And if you even bothered to read the verdict no where did it say "oh yea, and I am a gay man" Whether or not he is a gay man or not doesn't mean that the specific reasons for the rulings change.



  44. 44

    Re: Aussieone
    #37

    I will only reply to you this one time, because I get enough abuse from you on the other thread. I don't care what your point of view is on this and I didn't address my post to you, so leave me alone!

    I won't even bother to debate it with you either, because all you do is cry discrimination and bigotry. You are incapable of respecting that another person can have a differing view. Just know that the debate is ONLY about the word marriage, not the unity of two people. Domestic partnerships and civil unions ARE legally recognized and provide the same protections under the law as marriage. The only reason that this is an issue is because people like you want to FORCE your views on everyone else. The PEOPLE have spoken and their feelings are being disregarded entirely. We'll just see how it ends up after the appeals are finished!



  45. 45

    Re: GeorgiaJules – GeorgiaJules ,couples always have the choice of a purely civil wedding, performed by someone duly appointed by the state like a Justice of the Peace. All you need is a license and a couple of witnesses, and the latter are sometimes composed of whoever is right there, just standing around. There need be no religious element at all — it's just a simple statement of contractual vows which many atheists have found adequate to their needs.
    *
    the only time marriage has anything to do with religion is if the people getting married want it to be a religious ceremony. people can get married in prison, drunk people get married all the time to people they don't even know in Vegas. people have gotten married 7 or 8 times. have you never heard the term "marriage of convenience'? all of these "marriages" are fine just so long as it's between a man and a woman? nobody was protesting about how these types of unions were disrespectful the word marriage? even someone as thick headed as you must see how hypocritical this is. it is so obvious that people like you just don't believe gay people are equals and deserve the same rights. that's fine if that's how you feel, but at least be truthful about it instead hiding behind your religion. come on just admit it, you should just embrace your homophobia like MarioMonjack instead of coming up with lame excuses that make no sense. and yes, it is EXACTLY about being UNEQUAL!!!



  46. 46

    Re: AttFinch
    #45

    Marriage ceremonies have been around since the beginning of relationships. Marriages were not always legal, you know. There were and still are cultures that have marriage ceremonies and the law has nothing to do with the way that they live. Even those marriages are recognized as being between a man and woman. Modern civilization is when the legal aspect of it began, so I don't agree with you at all. I also said that it was initially a religious ceremony, which it was. I didn't say what religion, because marriage is widely recognized by a tremendous amount of different religions.

    Again, I ask, WHY must they have the word marriage IF civil ceremonies give them the same rights? What you see as us denying them something can also be considered you forcing something that is unnecessary on us.

    I won't stoop to your level and insult you, because I simply posted my opinion; therefore I will try to respect yours, as you should have respected mine.



  47. 47

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    -
    "The only reason that this is an issue is because people like you want to FORCE your views on everyone else."
    -
    NO IT IS YOU THAT WANTS TO FORCE YOUR MYTH ON OUR LAWS!
    -
    IT IS YOU THAT WANTS TO FORCE HETEROSEXUALITY ON HOMOSEXUAL'S!
    -
    I AND OTHERS LIKE ME SUPPORT EQUALITY!
    -
    YOU HAVE ALREADY STATED THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE SAME SEX MARRIAGE IS EQUAL TO OPPOSITE SEX MARRIAGE!
    -
    NO ONE IS TRYING TO MAKE YOU MARY SOMEONE OF THE SAME SEX!
    -
    YOU HOWEVER SEEK TO LIMIT OTHERS CHOICE TO THE ONE YOUR RELIGION SUPPORTS!
    -
    YOUR CHURCH DOES NOT OWN MARRIAGE NOR DOES IT OWN THE NATIONS LAWS.
    -
    IF YOU ARE AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE DON'T MARRY SOMEONE OF THE SAME SEX.
    -
    AND REALLY GO WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN LIFE (OR LACK THEREOF) RATHER THAN TRYING TO FORCE YOUR RELIGION ON OTHERS AND OUR LAWS!
    -



  48. 48

    Re: GeorgiaJules – 46
    -
    "Modern civilization is when the legal aspect of it began"
    -
    Code of Hammurabi 1790 years before the story of you christ is the earliest recorded marriage LAW.
    -
    Records exist of Greek same sex marriage and PNG tribes still have same sex marriage along with the oral history and cave paintings to show it has been that way since the beginning of time.
    -
    Re: "I will only reply to you this one time, because I get enough abuse from you on the other thread."
    -
    Leave your childish bullshit on the other page it isn't a shield here was it not you who wrote:
    -
    "If YOU continue to reply, I'll continue and harass you"
    -
    So don't come here and pretend your a victim, as you spit out your bigotry and lies. Lies that can be easily disproved with a google search!
    -
    You have NO truth, NO facts and a really ugly attitude. You can not extort people into silence lady!
    -
    cntd



  49. 49

    cntd:
    -
    "WHY must they have the word marriage IF civil ceremonies give them the same rights?"
    -
    You ask the same questions that people including myself have already answered.
    -
    27 "No, Civil Unions lack over 1000 federal rights that are granted with marriage. Not equal at all. That's why it's not enough." -tjr3191
    -
    14 "Because the same but different isn't equal. Just as taps for blacks and taps for whites where not equal neither is a civil union equal to marriage. Marriage is a social union or legal contract between individuals that creates kinship. It is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged by a variety of ways, depending on the culture or demographic. It is not owned by your church it predates them all."
    -
    45 "There need be no religious element at all — it's just a simple statement of contractual vows which many atheists have found adequate to their needs."-AttFinch
    -
    A boat captain can perform marriage lady! All marriage's in the US are performed under the authority of the state.
    -
    14 "If your confusion lies in the belief that the church owns marriage, that is not the case the US government or State government thereof provides both the license to get married and the marriage certificate which forms the official record of such."- aussieone
    -
    Why do you believe it must NOT be called marriage ?



  50. 50

    Re: sharre – When you looked up the fact that Judge Walker is gay, did you also happen to notice he was appointed by Reagan and promoted by George H.W. Bush and has been criticized by liberals like Nancy Pelosi for being insensitive to poor and gay people? Oh right, you probably didn't look it up at all just repeated something you heard on Fox News.



  51. 51

    Why is this country whose citizens shout to the world is the land of the free, waste taxpayers money to DENY peoples freedom? I just dont get your country. I would understand people protesting FOR FREEDOM, but protesting to censor individuals? How is even possible to pass a bill to deny people their basic right to express themselves? Silly, silly silly. Can please someone explain me this? In what ways do gay marriage affect the lives of us straight people? Are people fearing that the world would turn gay if they "allow it"? If so, wouldnt be free will a basic fundamental right given by God? So what if everyone wants to be queer, isnt peoples desire the true meaning of this life anyway? It seems like religious bigots really ARE against Gods will… Talk about inferior complex.



  52. 52

    Re: dadavod
    #51

    You questioned this "fundamental right given by God", but since you reference God, can you please tell me of ANY scripture in ANY religion that states that GOD created homosexuals and condones the behavior? If not, then how is it a fundamental right to get married? Where does it stop? Can a sister and brother marry, if they are in love and consenting adults? It is currently illegal, but what is the difference? Why do laws not allow it, since they too have "fundamental rights given by God"?

    Understand that I firmly believe that homosexuality is a choice, not something that you are born to be, but that is just my personal belief. I have gay people in my family and love them tremendously and don't judge them, because it is not my place to do so; however they do know how I feel about gay marriage and them having children. We are capable of respecting one another's views, even if we totally disagree on the topic.

    You question why THIS country has this issue with Gay marriage, but you do realize that there are VERY few countries that allow gay marriage, so we are certainly not alone. The majority of the world feels as we do.



  53. 53

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    *
    The bible contains three same sex relationships
    *
    Ruth and Naomi
    David and Jonathan
    Daniel and Ashpenaz
    *
    Ruth 1:16-17 and 2:10-11 describe their close friendship Perhaps the best known passage from this book is Ruth 1:16-17 which is often read out during opposite-sex and same-sex marriage and union ceremonies:
    *
    "Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me." (NIV)
    *
    Ruth 1:14, referring to the relationship between Ruth and Naomi, mentions that "Ruth clave onto her." (KJV) The Hebrew word translated here as "clave" is identical to that used in the description of a heterosexual marriage in Genesis 2:24: " Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." (KJV)



  54. 54

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    Passages in 1 Samuel & 2 Samuel describe, among other events, a extremely close bond between David and Jonathan. Jonathan was the son of King Saul, and next in line for the throne. But Samuel anointed David to be the next king. This produced a strong conflict in the mind of Saul.
    *
    1 Samuel 18:1
    "…Jonathan became one in spirit with David and he loved him as himself." (NIV)
    *
    "…the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (KJV)
    *
    1 Samuel 18:2
    "From that day, Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his father's house." (NIV)
    *
    David left his parent's home and moved to Saul's where he would be with Jonathan. This is a strong indication that the relationship was extremely close. It echoes the passage marriage passage in Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."
    *
    1 Samuel 18:3-4
    "And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt." (NIV)
    *
    Since people in those days did not wear underwear, Jonathan stripped himself naked in front of David. That would be considered extremely unusual behavior (then and now) unless their relationship was physical.



  55. 55

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    DANIEL AND ASHPENAZ
    *
    Now God had brought Daniel into favor and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs" (KJV)
    *
    The Hebrew words which describe the relationship between Daniel and Ashpenaz are chesed v'rachamim. V'rachamim is in a plural form which is used to emphasize its relative importance. It has meaning as it is emphasized “physical love”.
    *
    Your god is fake but I hope that answers your question.



  56. 56

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    -
    YOU CLAIM THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS A CHOICE..
    -
    FOR THAT TO BE TRUE HETEROSEXUALITY MUST ALSO BE A CHOICE.
    -
    SO HOW MANY SAME SEX RELATIONSHIPS AND ATTRACTION DID YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU DECIDED TO BE HETEROSEXUAL ?
    -



  57. 57

    Humans can only reproduce with sperm, which can only be produced by a male, and eggs, which can only be produced by a female. We are not anatomically or biologically capable of reproducing without one of each sex. You can add science into it with surrogates and IVF, but ultimately it still requires a male and female. THAT is why we are heterosexual by design. Various reasons lead people to choose a homosexual lifestyle, but no matter what, they were born heterosexual. Life was created to reproduce and sustain more life. Yes, some women are infertile and can't reproduce, but that is nothing more than a "glitch" so to speak. If you can show me 2 men or 2 women that can create a life naturally then I'll concede and agree that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality; otherwise the science speaks for itself.



  58. 58

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    -
    So your argument is that the bible is bullshit as Mary needed sperm to have a child ? lol
    -
    Scientists at the University of Newcastle have managed to create human sperm cells using a female embryonic stem cell.
    -
    The researchers, led by Prof Karim Nayernia, had previously created primitive sperm cells from male bone marrow. They’re currently working on making the cells from female bone marrow, which would be much easier and more practical than creating them from embryos.
    -
    The creation means that lesbian couples could soon have children that shared the DNA of both women, rather than having one male biological father. A sperm cell created from one partner could fertilize her partner’s egg.
    -2006 AP
    -
    YOU CLAIM THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS A CHOICE..
    -
    FOR THAT TO BE TRUE HETEROSEXUALITY MUST ALSO BE A CHOICE.
    -
    SO HOW MANY SAME SEX RELATIONSHIPS AND ATTRACTION DID YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU DECIDED TO BE HETEROSEXUAL ?
    -
    Answer the question!



  59. 59

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    -
    You argument is so full of holes..
    -
    Marriage has nothing to do with ability to have children if it did there woul be age limits on it and those who are infertile would also be denied that basic human right!
    -
    If humans where as you claim "heterosexual by design" there would be no such thing as homosexuality.
    -
    The ability to reproduce is not a requirement for love either or should your "glitch" people also be denied the right to love ?
    -
    FYI Men to can be infertile also!
    -



  60. 60

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    This one did not post before:
    *
    1 Samuel 20:41
    "After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with is face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together - but David wept the most." (NIV)
    *
    2 Samuel 1:26
    "I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."
    In the society of ancient Israel, it was not considered proper for a man and woman to have a platonic relationship. Men and women rarely spoke to each other in public. Since David's only relationships with women would have been sexual in nature, then he must be referring to sexual love here. It would not make sense in this verse to compare platonic love for a man with sexual love for a woman; they are two completely different phenomena. It would appear that David is referring to his sexual love for Jonathan.
    *



  61. 61

    So let me see if I got this. A HOMO judge gets to decide if HOMO'S



  62. 62

    Re: Aussieone
    #58 & 59

    I'll reply to you again, but only because you are an idiot and make no sense with your arguments! You LOVE to copy and paste as much as possible, don't you? Can you even have an original thought without googling something first? Just curious…

    Immaculate conception was an act of GOD; therefore it obviously didn't require the normal method. God is powerful and can do that kind of thing, you know? Oh wait, you don't believe in God, so you wouldn't understand, would you? I'll not argue theology with you, so don't bother to try and you LONG posts with religious information that you copied and pasted, don't interest me either. It is all YOUR interpretation, which is truly grasping.

    Do infertile couples deserve a child, certainly! Shy of a man being sterile, a woman has many choices in ways to increase fertility. Either way, they are still a MAN and WOMAN, which provides the child with the influences that they require to be prepared for life.

    As for the cloning and creation of sperm from scientific methods…

    I'll only say that scientists are NOT GOD; therefore playing God is WRONG and unacceptable! They are doing nothing more than typical Frankenstein science. I can assure you , you won't see that type of science globally seen as acceptable in your lifetime! Too many take issue with it! Anyone who would even consider such methods has SERIOUS issues anyway!

    con't



  63. 63

    Re: Aussieone

    con't

    Again, if you can show me of a NATURAL way for 2 men or 2 women to procreate, please provide the evidence and I'll be more than willing to change my view!

    Oh, and since we are ALL born heterosexual, I never had to make a choice. I am just what we are naturally designed to be! So, NO I never had any issues with my sexuality. Homosexual lifestyle is a choice, just like pedophiles make a choice to love children versus adults. Sexual deviance is all over the place, but it isn't natural, sorry!



  64. 64

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    -
    Firstly why are you being so gutless and making your bigoted argument about children on the marriage page ? Could you not handle the heat you got on the page concerning children ?
    -
    As the crazy lady who believes in a magical wizard that created everything you really should be more careful in who you call an idiot.
    -
    Also given that any "point" you have EVER made to me has been shot to shit on this page and all the others!
    -
    Does that mean you lose every argument to an idiot ? If so what does that make you ?
    -
    So besides all you talk about your Fake "god" what point are you trying to make ?
    -
    You claim that humans are "heterosexual by design" we are not if that was the case there would be no homosexuality.
    -
    "Humans can only reproduce with sperm, which can only be produced by a male, and eggs, which can only be produced by a female"
    -
    NO not true I have already shown you one natural way in which two women can conceive and in Sweden they have produced a egg and womb from a gay mans bone marrow. Which could if approved be placed in a man to carry his partners child.
    -
    It has already been done in mice.(Which for your limited mind constitutes natural, as it has been in the world and observed) Professor Mats Brannstrom, has said that the first human baby could be born from a transplanted womb within three years.
    -
    Natural: existing in or in conformity with nature or the observable world.
    cntd



  65. 65

    Re: Aussieone
    #64

    Do you seriously think that your weird Frankenstein science constitutes "Natural"? If so then you have more serious issues than can be listed on this blog! Man can CREATE all kinds of ways, but it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to happen in a purely natural situation. You can keep spewing the crap about how I "lost" arguments with you, but that has never been the case. I have my OPINION and will continue to do so, regardless of the stuff that you copy and paste to this website.

    Again I will say, IF you can PROVE to me of even ONE SINGLE instance of 2 men or 2 women creating a child in a 100% natural way, which means without your Frankenscience, then provide the evidence and I'll be happy to reconsider my opinion on the subject. I'll be waiting for the evidence. Oh and don't bother to send me any information on Swedish stem cell research or any other scientific process, because I said NATURAL, which means with NO help.



  66. 66

    cntd
    -
    I still don't see what crazy point you hope to make when you believe a woman gave birth to a child without sex! It defeats whatever argument you think you are making ?
    -
    Gay couples have children all the time, through the same means that straight infertile and some fertile couples do. You are hiding here to make this argument because your bigotry shot down there. neil-patrick-harris-to-become-father-of-twins
    -
    There are hundreds of thousands of studies that prove that rearing children in a same-sex household does not affect the their self-esteem, gender identity, or emotional health, they all show the children doing as well or better than children raised in heterosexual house holds. Many straight sole parents raise children which makes them raised in a single gender home.
    -
    AGAIN YOU CLAIM THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS A CHOICE..
    -
    FOR THAT TO BE TRUE HETEROSEXUALITY MUST ALSO BE A CHOICE.
    -
    You wrote: "I never had to make a choice" that statement proves the point if you did not choose yours then its not a choice. It is a point that science has already proved but a uneducated bigot like yourself chooses not to recognize that fact.
    -
    cntd



  67. 67

    cntd
    -
    What kind of person would write this:
    -
    "just like pedophiles make a choice to love children versus adults."
    -
    Pedophiles rape children!
    -
    Who the fuck calls raping children love ?
    -
    You really are just fucking disgusting!!!
    -
    Just so we are clear, I have no interest in changing your mind (I really don't believe you have one) as I have already told you on all the other pages you are just a bigot you have no point to make and you can not handle facts.
    -
    I challenge with truth the stupidity of you and your posts so it does not propagate.



  68. 68

    Re: Aussieone
    Choosing to go against nature IS a choice. You can argue it all that you want, but heterosexuals are what is natural and normal, sorry, but you'll have to blame NATURE if you disagree!

    As for the pedophile comment, you obviously are inept and didn't get the point. I too think it is a sick sick thing, but if you ask even ONE of the, they will say that they are attracted to and sometimes LOVE children versus adults. To them, this is normal. OBVIOUSLY it is not!

    It being homosexual is perfectly normal, then why stop there? Why not allow brothers and sisters to marry, if they are consenting adults? How about fathers marrying their adult daughters? Wait, you are probably thinking that it is sick and twisted to even suggest a thing, but what exactly is the difference? They are ALL based on sexual desires, which are NOT normal. Giving in to them doesn't make them right either. The only reason this is even a topic to discuss is because this country is FAR too focused on being "politically correct", which is sad and will ultimately cause the destruction of our great nation, if we don't get it under control! Just because people want it, it doesn't make it right!!

    Again, provide evidence of 2 men or 2 women NATURALLY (without ANY scientific help) creating a life. Can't do it, can you??? Know why? BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!



  69. 69

    Re: GeorgiaJules – -
    -
    YOU REALLY ARE BATSHIT CRAZY! YOU JUST MAKE THE SAME STUPID STATEMENTS OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
    -
    You post that two men or two women can't without science create a child like its some revelation.. Who said they could ??
    -
    What you said was: "Humans can only reproduce with sperm, which can only be produced by a male, and eggs, which can only be produced by a female"
    -
    YOU WHERE WRONG! Sperm can be made just as an egg and womb can be made with the help of science.
    -
    SO AGAIN YOU HAVE NO POINT!
    -
    "Choosing to go against nature IS a choice. You can argue it all that you want, but heterosexuals are what is natural"
    -
    Again facts prove you wrong, google: List of animals displaying homosexual behavior.
    -
    YOU CHOSE TO USE NATURE AND IT PROVES YOU WRONG AGAIN!
    -
    cntd



  70. 70

    cntd
    -
    "The only reason this is even a topic to discuss is because this country is FAR too focused on being "politically correct"
    -
    NO THE ONLY REASON THAT YOUR STUPIDITY IS BEING SLAMMED IS BECAUSE YOU CANT MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE.
    -
    YOU CANT DO THAT BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ONE!
    -
    Just so we are clear, I have no interest in changing your mind (I really don't believe you have one) as I have already told you on all the other pages you are just a bigot you have no point to make and you can not handle facts.
    -
    I challenge with truth the stupidity of you and your posts so it does not propagate. YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A NO FACT BIGOT ASS CLOWN!
    -



  71. 71

    Re: Aussieone
    #70

    Okay, so I am done replying to you. You are incapable of replying without resorting to insults and name calling, so I am done with you. If you choose to reply, just know that I will not respond, nor will I bother to even read it. You were an asshole on the other thread and couldn't help yourself but to target me here too. You aren't worth anymore of my time, so GO AWAY. I also know that you have no self control, so you will definitely reply. Sad, but true!



  72. 72

    Re: GeorgiaJules
    -
    YOU HAVE NO POINT NO FACT SO WHAT DO I CARE!!
    -
    Get over your childish victim bullshit on the other page was it not you who wrote:
    -
    "If YOU continue to reply, I'll continue and harass you"
    -
    So don't come here and pretend your a victim, as you spit out your bigotry and lies. Lies that can be easily disproved with a google search!
    -
    LIKE I TOLD YOU ON THE OTHER PAGE YOU ARE A CYBER STALKER ASS CLOWN BIGOT I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU.
    -
    YOU ARE WRONG DEAL WITH IT!