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Menace to Society?
Filed under: Fashion Smashion > Legal Matters
Cops in Flint, Michigan are literally playing fashion police!
According to reports, the city's new chief of police has ordered his officers to start arresting saggers*.
Saggers could face jail time and hefty fines for a fad he calls "immoral self expression."
He later told a local paper the style could give officers probable cause to search saggers.
WTF?
Flint is in America!
We still have some freedom of expression rights in our country, don't we?
Michael Moore, what's your hometown thinking?
No worries…the ACLU is on the case. They've threatened to take the Flint cops to court if they insist on citing peeps for sagging.
*Saggers = fans of wearing their pants low - very low!
Update: A reader points out something very interesting.
"Although I'm not a fan of the baggy jeans look, most folks don't know that the whole look didn't start as a fashion statement, but because poor kids always had to wear hand me down clothing …so in the hood, everyone was wearing pants, shirts and shoes that were way too big for them. The look is a nod to that …and when folks challenge that, it's often because they don't understand the context."
Update #2: Inneresting.
Another reader offers a different take on things.
"On the posting about the new saggy pants citations in Mich you have an update from a reader who points out the tradition stems from poor kids wearing hand-me-down clothes. This is not true. It stems from the fact that when in prison, prisoners aren't allowed to have belts, so their prison issue pants often sag very low. The style of saggy pants was brought to the street as a show of toughness associated with the prison/gangster lifestyle. And the citations aren't really about freedom of expression. One of the main reasons saggy pants are being banned in many places (including in many schools) is because it makes it easier to conceal guns."
Update #3:
You guys are so smart!
Another reader points out an interesting hypothesis, " just an update, they are STRUGGLING in michigan and they are trying to find some way to make money, especiallllly oakland county. that's why they're enforcing this."
[Image via WENN.]
Um, duh! Flint is not in Oakland County, it's in Genessee. ALSO, Oakland County is VERY wealthy. There is a huge tax base of UAW, Big three salaried, rock stars (Kid and M) and pro athletes. Oakland ain't hurtin'.
Flint is in Genesee county not Oakland, which is the richest county in michigan, and one of the richest countys in america. just FYI
Hey Update # 3, Flint is in Genesee County, dumbass. Pull up your pants.
i find it kinda ironic that directly underneath "you guys are so smart!" they put a quote about oakland county
flints in genesee county
duhmb
for the record, flint isn't even in oakland county (which is one of the more affluent counties in mi). should have looked that up before posting it for all to read. silly people.
I'm from Michigan and I live about 20 minutes away from Flint. Considering how close I live to Detroit (a largely black populated city) my hometown is very, very white. And while I may not understand or even like when gangstas where their pants hanging off their ass, I think they have every right to. Just as much as the girls in my city have to wear booty shorts with a skanky cami on top. I think it's ridiculous that their arresting people on the streets for this. I get why they need to enforce this at schools for safety reasons but… seriously, it's just pants!
flint isn't even close to oakland county.
i would know, i live there.
Hey genius…..Flint is in Genessee County not Oakland County.
Even if Flint was in Oakland Co., last time I checked Oakland Co. was about the 2nd or 3rd richest county in the US
Okay, so I'm not a fan of the baggy pants theme either, but the point here is that one of our civil liberties just been infringed upon. The story isn't about whether we understand WHY certain people wear their clothes this way, it's about getting a ticket for not wearing what some consider "proper attire." Okay, if that's the case then women should be ticketed the same when they sit down and their entire thong is showing.
I'm just sayin. . . .
Just an FYI, Flint is located in Genesee County NOT Oakland County
Flint is in Genesee County, not Oakland. Oakland is the richest county in Michigan. Idiots.
According to reports, the city's new chief of police has ordered his officers to start arresting saggers*.
Saggers could face jail time and hefty fines for a fad he calls "immoral self expression."
He later told a local paper the style could give officers probable cause to search saggers.
Wouldn't most 'saggers' also happen to be young black men? As a college student, I see the majority of boys, white and black, wearing their pants lower than their mothers and professors would probably like them to be. But isn't this fad especially common/popular among young black males, like Lil Wayne and those who emulate him? I don't like to see strange guys' rears anymore than anyone else, but I don't believe simply wearing pants too low should be considered probable cause for search by a police officer.
flint is not in oakland county.
Flint MI is not part in Oakland County
We have that same exact law in Central Florida, no joke.
Flint is not in Oakland County, fool! It's in Genesee County! Oakland County does quite well financially, lots of noveau richies.
LOL the only reason Michigan is "struggling" is because it's a state that has depended on the automotive industry for a fucking century! And Flint is only one city. So don't say the state is struggling just because a group of old people decided they don't like seeing underwear. That's what the bottom line is. It's not anything about thinking somebody is a thug, etc…it's about America being too sensitive.
Re: ang – Uhh, "Kid" and "M" are from Macomb County, different demographic entirely.
To bad Flint is located in Genesee county. Not Oakland county. Cities that are in Oakland county are Rochester Hills, Farmington Hills, Royal Oak. Most people that live in those cities have money..
Who cares where the fad came from, it still a fashion statement. What will the go after next? Booty shorts! Stilleto Heals!!!! Those can be used as a weapon.
JUST SO YOU KNOW PEREZ, THE WRITER OF YOUR THIRD "COMMENT" THAT YOU QUOTED IS AN IDIOT- FLINT IS IN GENESSEE COUNTY THE LAST TIME I CHECKED. I WAS BORN THERE AFTER ALL
perez, dudee flint is the ghetto.
they need to do whatever it takes to get the scum out of that town, because lord knows flint needs it.
the dumbest thing i`ve heard all day long .Re: KIM –
lol ! exactly.
In reference to update #3…since Flint is not in Oakland County, I highly doubt that the need for money has anything to do with the new law. But, it may have a lot to do with the prevelence of gang related violence. Without sounding too much like I'm stereotyping…how many people in gangs do you know of that wear their jeans on their waist without their boxers or underwear showing?
In response to update #3:
Flint is not in Oakland County.
Oakland County is actually one of the wealthiest counties in the country due to cities such as Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham, etc.
Both explanations you note on your post are wrong. The first is completely false. The second is partially wrong. The idiotic trend of having pants sag below their asses is from prison but not because the prisoners didn't have belts. In fact, that theory is really dumb if you think about it for even a second. Have any of you ever seen prisoners with pants so loose that it fell below their asses? NO. Prison inmates would constantly be tripping and falling in line which would cause chaos. The real history of the super baggy pants is that in prison, men would signal their desire for anal sex with fellow inmates by pulling their pants down very low to allow 'access'. That idiot black kids thought this was cool without knowing they were actually copying the behavior of homosexual sex in prison is ironic and hilarious.
Flint is not in Oakland County….Flint is in Genessee County. Oakland County is one of the richest counties per capita in the U.S.
I honestly doubt it is a nod to hand me downs, that's just an excuse, you kow you all do it cuz you think it's cool and thuggish and style , well it's not it's downgrades you and makes people think the worse of you and then you whine about being stereotyped
News flash Perez, Flint is not in Oakland County, It's in Genesee county. People Should really check their facts before posting things on line!!!! Besides Michigan being in a total economic depression, i can assure you oakland county is just fine. Those ghetto kids walking around Flint with all there Junk hanging out is disgusting. They should do something about it.
In regards to "update #3" on the menace to society article, Flint is located in GENESSE county - NOT Oakland County. People need to get their facts straight. And they need to know that Flint has been struggling a whole lot longer than the "state" of Michigan. That city has needed help for ages, and no one seems to come to the rescue.
I would just like to point out that, while the whole hand-me-down theory is very interesting, sagging pants came from prison culture. Not because they don't want to be somebody's bitch as so eloquently stated by one reader, but because they were so used to it. Not that I support the style or anything, but telling dudes, most of whom are black and know someone or have actually been in jail themselves (blame the american govt. for false imprisonment and all that) is like telling a girl she cant wear her skirt short or something. It'S a bad analogy, but… there you go.
I have to agree with them. How is allowing your pants to ride below your underwear expressing anything? I think it ridiculous and it's about time somebody's doing something about it.
Hey all-
I have cut and paste definitions of the word saggin from the Urban Dictionary, very interesting.
saggin 36 up, 14 down
I've heard the jail term..but instead of having a gang behind them, Iheard that it was because in jail, the inmates aren't given belts, and they pant size isn't always considered when they're given their uniforms…it's moved outside of jails, into hip hop, but they're emulating inmates, and it spells "niggas" backwards, rather derogatory and nothing the kids should aspire to be.
his pants are saggin like an inmates
inmates jail culture self-esteem self-pride hip-hop
by aabb Apr 12, 2006 email it 0 comments
2. saggin 32 up, 17 down
1. the censored version of the word niggas in editted tracked that are played in the radio.
2. the editted version of the word 'niggas' that is played backwards. It is done usually with turntables.
also works as aggin, the editted version of the word 'nigga'
"fuck that, hammer that aggin to the earth, wanna cross me? you saggin gotta pay that toll first"
by illforreal May 27, 2005 email it 0 comments
3. saggin 1 thumb down
a another word for niggas. These saggin rappers are real as they come.
spell backward
homeboy,my boy, i ride with tha boy.These saggin rappers are real as they come. If u a saggin throw ur hood up.
homeboy my boy i ride with tha boy friend brotherhood
by treiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Apr 12, 2008 email it 0 comments
actually, my hubby works as a corrections officer and he learned this; the reason prisoners where their pants baggy is to show they are available to other prisoners and and that I find so funny that everywhere you look people where them like that b/c they think they look cool.I wonder if somebody started a trend snd they wore a bag of shit on their head if other people would think it was cool and started to do the same? just sayin.
First of all Flint is not in Oakland County! And one of the Chicago suburbs are doing the same thing.
In response to Update #3, Flint is not in Oakland county.
I do think with all the crime and trouble that Flint faces each day, the police have more important things to do there.
Also, Detroit recently put back into force the law dating from the 60's that requires all bikes to be licensed. What are these people thinking?
This law was passed because the USA is now in a police state. Look around you. Maybe you can do something to change it. And I'm not talking Obama change. He's not who you think he is or what Perez makes him out to be. Educate yourselves people.
Here's my take on this :
If they aren't seeing full moons walking down the street……They should find something better to do with their time and the tax payers money. This is lame.
I currently own a home in Flint, MI (which i rent out) and I lived there for about 5 years. I live in Davison now, but still drive the streets of flint every single day as an outside sales rep. I can honestly say i think this is a great law because some (not all) do really look ridiculous while walking the streets "sagging" and this only contributes to the bad image flint has to the rest of the country. However, enforcement will be hard to manage since the police have a hard enough time chasing drug dealers, prostitutes, gang members, rapists, murderers and burglers. And, believe it when I say this, Flint has far worse problems than "sagging," but good for the city of Flint and County of Genesee to bring negative national attention to us once again!!!
Oakland County is the richest county in michigan. flint is in genesee county.
Flint is NOT in Oakland County - Flint is in Genesee County, MI.
"was brought to the street as a show of toughness associated with the prison/gangster lifestyle"
Gangster lifestyle???????
Lets get one thing straight moolies are not and will never be gangsters, stop using that word when you talk about moolies, you'll have real gangsters like Gotti, Gambino, Lansky, Bonanno, flipping in their graves, now those were gangsters, real men of respect, not like these stupid morons, who would kill your mother for a shiny penny.
Flint is in Genesee county Michigan, not Oakland. Oakland is one of the richest counties in the US.
Michigan is struggling, but definitely NOT Oakland County. Oakland County is one of the richest in the nation. That third updater is an idiot. Flint is in Genesse which IS struggling because of the GM plant closing and all the of the crime there.
Update #3 - Flint is NOT in Oakland county!! It is in Gennessee County. This has nothing to do with Oakland county so why even mention it?
whoever wrote update number three is an idiot because Flint is not a part of Oakland County.
Clearly, whoever wrote that comment about Oakland County does not know what he or she is talking about. Flint is not located in Oakland County.
Oakland County is, however, one of the most affluent counties in America. Do your research please.
first of all FLINT ISNT IN OAKLAND COUNTYYYY. THANKS!
OAKLAND COUNTY is one of the richest counties in the US.
read your facts people.
For the person that said that people are struggling in Oakland County, that has nothing to do with this. Flint isn't even in Oakland County and people in Flint have been struggling long before people in one of the richest counties in the country (Oakland County) was!
Flint is not in Oakland County it is located in Genesee County
Flint is not even in Oakland Couty!
Lil Gay Wayne. very cute
FLINT IS NOT IN OAKLAND COUNTY IT IS IN GENESEE COUNTY
Actually it has been viewed in sociology studies that the "saggers" started in the prison system to show that men with sagging pants were not a threat to other inmates…if you know what I mean. Right on Chloe!
The REAL meaning behind "sagging" is that's how prisoners showed other prisoners that they were "single" and willing…. Google that shit…
Re: Allis –
white people don't wear their pants like that because they don't want to look like they are about to go rob someone or soot at someone…white people have class and don't consider it cool to wear their pants like that
FYI dumbasses!
flint is the toughest place in Michigan along with Saginaw and many other places and sagging does have to do with many gangs and violence in our state, so if you don't live here don't bitch about Michigan, not you Perez but everyone else's comments on here are so low even for them.
and what the hell does it have to do with money?
love you Perez anyways
Didn't the Taliban have a dress code also? Wow, what has America come to.
flint isnt in oakland county, its in genesee county fool.
Michael Moore is from DAVISON, MI not FLINT.
LOL, i
m from OC, Michigan…. and we are not struggling
It all about being in a gang a representing your colors…..like you wear a plaid boxer w white n black to be one gang, green n blue stripe in another, etc etc. Cops need to prove the gang association and go from there…..I thought it was stupid to wear this style too….cept now I want to after this crap law….HeffLV
for anyone so is fucking reading this blog spot. flint michigan is like 100 miles away for oakland county. so for anyone who thinks flint in is oakland county is a moron. it is obvious that the michigan economy is struggling but to think that this policy was brought in an attempt to raise funds for michigan is ridiculous. first of all. the economy is in a shit in general and to say that a single county is doing this for funds it bullshit.
Actually, the saggin fad is from folks frontin that they've done time. You aren't allowed belts in prison=perpetually saggy!
As being one of the many 'struggeling' people in Michigan- it's not hard to find clothes that fit!
Flint police have a lot more to worry about then sagging pants, but hey why not. I'm sooo tired of seeing guys underwear- they should get a ticket.
To update number 3, Flint is not in Oakland County dumbshit!!! It's in Gennesee County!!!
Hey for your updates….Flint, MI is in GENESSEE COUNTY not oakland county. Get it right.
and no one notices the nice gang related red handkerchief in his back pocket?
to add to the comment about the city wanting to make money. of course they want to make money, its such a poor area. and not just that, but maybe theyre trying to get people to visit flint and if people are dressed like they're about to shoot you or mug you, you might not want to visit a place like that. so if they accomplish getting people to stop sagging their pants so much, theyll make money on bail and on tourism!
It originated in prisons as a way to show who was looking for a boyfriend. Or, in other words, a "bitch".
Flint is not in Oakland County!!
Flint is not in Oakland County ass….and as to the state of things…please note in the 2000 census it was the 2nd richest county in the nation…also have you been to Oakland County, West Bloomfield, Bloomfield Hills, Rochester, Farmington Hills etc…there is a reason it is littered with million dollar manions and celebrity homes…where do you think all the athletes, doctors, lawyers and illegal activity people live??
Do you are so smart #3. Flint is NOT in Oakland County it is in Genesee County. Look at a map people.
Another interesting update for you Perez, is that this is not the first time this has happened. Recently in Baltimore city there was a stateswomen who was trying to have a law passed for the saggy baggy clothing. Now the standard dress code in the "Hoods" of Baltimore is what i like to call the white t-shirt dress, sometimes longer than your knees, and way over sized jeans. The reasoning for the debate is that these clothes are worn to disguise weaponry, sometimes even rifles the length of one's leg and of course drugs and cash. Unfortunately, this actually has played out to be true in my city, where for many years has held one of the highest murder rates in the country, but I am proud to say that this year the murder has been the lowest it has been since I believe 1991…. I may stand to be corrected on that, and I cannot honestly say if the attempted ban on the saggy baggy clothes has resulted in the positive effect. PLus in all honestly, it just looks bad.
Re: Jen –
OH, and might I had that this "uniform" creates anonymity for people who are distributing drugs and killing people in the streets of bmore. If one of the people committing such crimes were to be spotted by police or another innocent witness, it's much harder to be identified when you blend in with the people around b/c you are all wearing the same thing. ANd believe me, shit like thjis goes down all day and night in bmore so it's to a criminal's benefit.
Flint isn't in Oakland County… Oakland County is the 3rd richest county in the nation and they don't need any more money.
How are saggy pants any more of a fucking fashion crime than the horrid "skinny jean"?
Gee, funny you should say such a thing, "M." I was at an establishment on Linden Rd. just last month when not one, but 3 younsters were escorted out by Genessee Co law enforcement. For what, you say? Dressing like dumb fucks!! Let's just say, I don't know where you go shopping or eat out, hang out, whatever….but it's happening. Now, whether or not these young people were fined or just slapped on the wrist and told to go home and make themselves more presentable, I couldn't say. But I can tell you one thing, they weren't picking up job applications in that desperate, poor excuse of a citylooking like that.
i've seen flint and it's a hellhole, but they should clean it up in a legitimate way.
This is not true. It stems from the fact that when in prison, prisoners aren't allowed to have belts, so their prison issue pants often sag very low. The style of saggy pants was brought to the street as a show of toughness associated with the prison/gangster lifestyle.
–> Tom Wolfe has mentioned this in his novel, Bonfire of the Vanities and in Man In Full. A bit was also mentioned in Charlotte Simmons, I think, along with the do-rag (handkerchief worn on the head), which apparently is also a nod to the fact that in prison, you have to make your own "head gear" to protect your scalp from burning during yard work.
Re: Lacey – Don't be stupid. It has nothing to do with becoming 'Taliban' because there's a dress code. It's about basic decency. I don't want to see someone's effing skid marks. Cover that thang up. Back in the day, if a guy's gaunche showed, it would be major wedgie time. Now, there's a thought. No fines, just a bit of fun peer pressure.
They're advertising for a mate like the baboons with the red rings around their butts. It shouts 'look at me,' and further, shouts 'look at me THERE.'
They're going to charge them with 'what?'
I want them charged with assault; on my poor eyes. Girls. hate. it.
can we please ban crocs while where at it?
I completely agree with update 2 and 3.
Neither of those two hypothese as to the origin of 'sagging' are correct. The first actually has some foundation in research, although it cannot be taken for a complete explanation and the comment about context lacks context itself.
The second is possible though undocumented. However, this sounds like a case of someone speaking a street-heard rumor out of their ass rather than bothering to do the reading.
Too bad that Flint isn't in Oakland County.
Re: lees – YOU'RE A REAL FUCKTARD!
Re: snuff – LOVE it! 488 posts and only two (unless I scanned incorrectly) mention the hanky. One associates it with gangs, which I find hilarious. I don't know how frightened I'd be of a gang walking around with red hankies in their right pockets. "Ooo. We better leave them alone, or they might make us shove our fists up their manholes." Ridiculous.
PEREZ! FIND OUT WHERE HE GOT THAT T SHIRT!
#3 is stupid, Flint is not even in Oakland county! It's in Genesee county.
Flint isn't in Oakland County, its in Genesee county–which has it just as rough economically. Its not like any of the people they are going to ticket can afford to pay the ticket or will even bother any way.
Flint is in Genesee County, not Oakland. And yes most of Michigan is struggling, but Oakland County, MI is one of the wealthiest counties in the country. Anyway, it's just clothes and should not be taken this seriously.
To person number 3….flint is not in oakland county, not even close. Oakland county is one of the richest in the nation.
Its Genesee county not Oakland. And the are banning all sagging not just gansters,If you are a woman walking around with thongs hanging out,or a guy sporting plumbers crack you will be ticketed. It's insane and I don't see it sticking.
THE LOOK STARTED IN JAIL… NO BELTS = SAGGY PANTS…THE LOOK WENT FROM PRISON TO THE STREETS
COPS, TRY ARRESTING SOMEONE THAT HAS REALLY DONE SOMETHING.
flint is not in oakland county. oakland county is by far the richest county in michigan. but it is true that michigan's economy is failing and towns like flint are hit the hardest.
Flint is struggling as well as the rest of Michigan as a whole. I was born in Flint and have lived here my whole life. Let the authorities that are dealing with what happens in flint on a daily basis try what they think might help. It might be a trial and error thing but at least somebody gives a crap about what is happening here and is trying to make a difference. Instead of complaining about something like this, complain or take a stand on something more important like what they do to people that abouse or mistreat children. They are our future!!
um lets break this down:
1. Cops = satan/thedevil
2. People can wear whatever the fuck the want.
its really not that hard to comprehend in my opinion.
To the person with comment #3 on the post:
Flint, MI is in Gennessee County NOT Oakland. Oakland County is the wealthiest county in Michigan and the fourth in the country. Check your "sources".