Words of Wisdom
Filed under: Inspiration
Nicole Lamarche, Miss California 2003 and now an ordained minister at Cotuit Federated Church in Cotuit, Mass, is speaking out.
She says:
"As a pastor and a former Miss California, I am often asked to interpret what the Word of God has to say on a particular subject. I am quite confident that God prefers that we human beings stick to speaking for ourselves. And yet there are occasions when God’s Word is used as a weapon, and I feel compelled to speak.
In the past few days, much has been made of the words of Miss California USA, Carrie Prejean. She stated that marriage is between a man and a woman. I write not in response to her opinion, but rather about her comments that followed: that the Bible condones her words. She said, 'It's not about being politically correct, it's about being biblically correct.' While this sentiment is shared by many who seek to condemn gay people and gay marriage, citing pieces of the Bible to further one’s own prejudice fails to meet the Bible on its own terms.
Most people seeking to condemn gay people point to the Book of Leviticus, where we read that men lying with men is an abomination. However, we rarely hear of other verses found in the book of Leviticus that are equally challenging. For example, Leviticus also tells us that eating shrimp and lobster is an abomination. And that a person should not wear material woven of two kinds of material—an impossible mandate for a pageant contestant!
In Paul’s letter to the community in Corinth we read, ‘For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church….’ And yet these words have not prevented Christian denominations from ordaining women, such as myself. Sadly, the Bible has been used to further prejudice throughout history. We have used it to permit ourselves to enslave people; to conquer and kill; and to denigrate the earth.
The truth is that it is difficult to know for sure the intentions of the biblical authors, but we do know something about God. Those of us who know God through Jesus of Nazareth know that he went to great lengths to express God’s love to people who were labeled as outcasts. He spent time with children, prostitutes, and lepers, all of whom were labeled as outside of the grasp of the Holy. As we continue to seek God’s vision for us as a nation grounded in a love for justice, I pray that we might move closer to the cause of grace.”
Re: softy – Because he is a celebrity. Now STFU
This minister could not have said that any better! I am a Christian and it sickens me that "so-called, Christians" use the bible as a weapon to justify their discriminations! Please study your religion before you open your mouth because Jesus does not like a fool!
So many good points!!! This is exactly why I refuse to go to church and be brain washed!!!!
She's only right in saying that in Leviticus (The Old Testament) that there are plenty of laws that Christians are no longer obligated to follow since they are part of the old Mosaic Law. However, some of these laws were repeated in The New Testament and are clearly meant for Christians to continue following. 1 Corintians chap 5 verse 9 &10 says: Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, NOR MEN WHO LIE WITH MEN, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom."
If you're looking for some Christian figure to get true "words of wisdom" from, try reading the Apostle Paul's words and not a former Miss California's.
wow wow wow! i wish she could be miss ca forever! as an agnostic, i adore her opinion. these are the christians i can understand and to whom i can relate. not only is she correct, but she is eloquent and intelligent in how she expresses her opinion. fantastic! kudos!
Re: sticky_and_sweet – . You must have missed the entire Presidential campaign. Obama clearly said many times that while he supports gay rights, he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. If you say otherwise, then you should look it up.
My point is that if Perez is going to call out a beauty queen contestant, he should call out all the people in power who share the same opinion. Otherwise, he's a hypocrite. I don't see anybody calling out Obama, even though he is the person who is in the best position to advance gay rights.
OK. For one, she is trying to find fame or she would have kept this to herself and not told everyone partial truths to get publicity. Second, God helps people that have been outcast find the way back to the word of the lord. He does not condone what they do.
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
perez your a total retard you make fun of little girls and draw cum on their faces yet my avatar of you with jizz and cock in you face, you censor. also you never printed my comments on how being gay might be a birth defect like something went wrong when you were a developing fetus and when i try to repost it you won't let me. i'm very serious about the birth defect like transgender people. could some one please address this issue ???
What an intelligent wise woman!!!!
Re: clagg – that is because Obama believes in FULL and EQUAL rights you DUMB FUCK. Civil Unions DON'T provide full and equal rights…there are 1,300 rights and protections NOT afforded to gays and lesbians that are in a straight marriage. Do some research before you come at me. Seriously.
Re: HollywoodTown – how did what she say confirm your belief in atheism. what she said was so graceful and loving and totally what Jesus preached
Okay, lots of time thinking on this one. So, I'm an atheist - a well confirmed one, I'm not a 20 yr. old testing the waters.
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That said, my belief system as in be kind to others, help those less fortunate, do your BEST to make your friends and family feel dearly loved, etc., etc. don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, don't kill - very similar belief system to a christian - less the whole God, Jesus, Bible deal.
I do it because its the RIGHT thing to do — not to score points and get into heaven. I think most Christians are the same, as well as most humanists I know (other name for an atheist).
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Any ways . . . why isn't there an enormous target on my back? Most gays I know are far more religious than I - who ranks zero on the relgion-o-meter.
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Can't figure out why I can walk in an get a marriage license any day of the week - Shouldn't my lifestyle be a much more concern ?
Wow, what an insightful woman! I love this - thanks for posting it!
Child molesters and prisoners can get married but I can't just because I'm gay? It's a fucking outrage!
Those words were very moving. And so true. Stop using religion to pass on judgement.
I wanted to take time to write something thoughtful, and all I can come up with is she is so insightful and wise.
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I wish Ms. Lamarche was on a talk show with Ms. Calif ~ that is one "discussion" I'd like to see.
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My Mom is very religious - and I feel so badly for her that christians are getting a bum rap for the exact reasons stated in Ms. Lamarche's piece.
Re: itsalexwoohoo – You post and mine just now appeared. Pls. don't think my comments on atheism were in any way the same.
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My belief is live and let live — if someone prefers religion, all the more power to them. If someone doesn't, fine as well.
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I do think most humanists and the "good, decent" chrisitans are very, VERY similar. Neither uses the bible or the teaching of a God to condem others.
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Re: canne71 –
what about their souls?
this is the first time i have posted on Perez but after reading this post I felt had to. This is a very smart woman, and her reaction is nothing less extremely impressive, this statement should get as far out as it can in the news! she makes amazing points and does it so beautifully, here is a woman we can all learn something from!
Personally; I couldn't have said it better.. Opinions expressed through the Bible are faulsified to validate a point and it's weak.. & when people begin to realize that we can begin to progress..
EQUALITY IS EVERYTHING!
EXACTLY!!!!That was awesome!! I thik this is the best post I have read on this topic. What a smart woman.
Re: wmellott –
Amen amen amen. Thank you for these scriptures. Jesus is just and loving, he died so that people who seek him and except him as their savior and REPENT OF THEIR SINS ,can go to heaven and have eternal life. But just because God loves us does not mean we can continually and willfully sin, part of salvation it to renounce our old and sinful ways and to follow Christ. People who point this out are not hippocrits if they are trying to live a Godly life. We will all face God one day I don't know about you but this terrifies me. I need the blood of Christ to take away my sins and so does everyone else. REPENT PEOPLE.
Well said and thank you for posting this. It's a shame that some people have to pick and choose ideas from the bible to advance thier own causes instead of just being graceful and kind to everyone.
Read 1 Corinthians 6:9! Homosexuality is a SIN against GOD. So is lying, coveting, stealing etc. Everyone lies, covets something, or has stolen, but not everyone is gay. As a CHRISTIAN, I don't see homosexuality as a sin that is any worse than lying, etc. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the holy ghost….so being homosexual is not unforgivable. But it is wrong and the bible clearly states it is wrong…many many times! To say the bible says anything different is perverting the truth.
i'm an atheist but that makes so much sense. almost reminds me of my catholic elementary years when i actually believed in jesus. still don't, but she was really eloquent and dead on!
She didn't say anything negative about gays. She just said she believes marriage is between a man and woman. She didn't mention the Bible or anything about violence against gays. Why are you turning this into a hate crime? The girl is entitled to her position as you are yours.
Re: Lady Irvine – True! The road to salvation is narrow! Not many will make it. Sad but true.
That was well said!
Awesome…get response from her…I completely agree…I believe in God and I believe in most things that are in the Bible…but the Bible was written by man not God himself…so not everything should be taken word for word. As well, times have changed and are changing and so the words of the bible should be adapted to how our world is now. God would never want any sort of man outcast because of who he is.
Re: k@lly – Very well said. Homosexuality is a sin like any other sin that is spoken about in the scriptures, and there can be forgiveness for those who repent. Only someone who doesn't understand the scriptures will claim that God is perfectly happy with what everyone does no matter what they do. Please people, if you're going to talk scriptures, please familiarize yourself with them first.
Funny how she left out a few verses.
The Federated Church is part of the United Church so of course she's going to say this. These are the same people who are sayinig that maybe God is just symbolic.
What a surprise you picked someone basically from the United Church Perez, you know how they feel about gays.
The Federated Church is part of the United Church so of course she's going to say this. These are the same people who are sayinig that maybe God is just symbolic.
What a surprise you picked someone basically from the United Church Perez, you know how they feel about gays. They love them, the United Church actually used to be against a lot of things perez, maybe you didn't know about that did you?
The Federated Church is equivalent to the United Church. How interesting of you to pick this ladies interpretation of the Bible considering you probably new their feelings about Gay people. They love them…NOW. They didn't used to. The United Church changes at the drop of a hat just to please people so its no surprise you picked her and say not.,..asking someone like Billy Graham.
Jesus didn't hang out with whores because he thought what they did was ok, he did it to save them to let them know that how they lived their lives was un-Goldly and wrong. Stop trying to make it seem that.. God loves it when you're a whore or gay or w/e…God Loves YOU but not what you DO
Wow! An attractive woman who has a brain, how refreshing and very rare!
that was beautiful. If all Christians were like this, I wouldn't mind religion.
I completly agree with LaMarche. I doubt GOD would outcast gays, so why should we. God loves everyone.
Re: sticky_and_sweet – Child molesters have an unnatural and perverse attaction to children, but they aren't allowed to marry them. Others have an unnatural and perverse attraction to sheep, but they aren't allowed to marry them. See where I'm going with this?
Re: Emmie859 – You remind me of that religious whack job from the movie, "The Mist"…if you haven't seen it yet, do - it would be like looking in a mirror.
FIANLLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes yes yes. Couldn'tve said it better myself. She is spot on! Jesus' message wasn't about hating peeps and judging them; it was about LOVE. Period. He basically said what the Beatles later echoed: All You Need Is Love.
Re: femellapacalis – It's religion that's fucked up. What tarnishes and clouds the true message of Christ is people taking their favorite little bits from the bible and making it into a huge deal. Like Miss Ca says: "it is difficult to know for sure the intentions of the biblical authors, but we do know something about God. Those of us who know God through Jesus of Nazareth know that he went to great lengths to express God’s love to people who were labeled as outcasts." Anyone who calls themself a "Christian" and doesn't follow that advice is not a true representative of those of us who are Christians and completely embrace our felllow mankind in the spirit of love and peace.
Preach it sister!!! Finally an educated woman!
Wow beautifully spoken…. I wish more people were open minded like this when it comes to the "written word"…. Thanks for sharing this!
what a beautiful letter… so well written, she certainly knows of which she speaks!
Re: MR PAPI – Then get the FUCK off this site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So young, so beautiful but most importantly . . . so wise.
Homosexuality is a sin? So is using condoms, according to the pope. And people need to stop refering to the bible as the DIRECT WORD OF GOD. Do they think he sat down and wrote the thing himself? And in response to the moron who said,… "if god wanted gays he would have made one sexuality" Um…. that's retarded. God obviously approves of them or they wouldn't be so abundant!! Ever think maybe he knows more than we do, and it's his version of population control? Hmmmm??? A great way to NOT produce more children, and possibly provide homes for the unwanted babies of others that are born every day? No, wait, that wouldn't be safe, we all know that gays are made gay by other gays, so those kids won't be safe! Or, gee, don't most homos come from heterosexual parents? Yeah, I think so. Use your BRAIN, people, not your BRAINWASHING!!!!!
wow that was awesome i couldnt agree more!!! ppl wake up and stop picking and choosing what to believe from the bible. it also says adultery is evil and not acceptable yet we do that to! hate is not ok neither is injustice.
As we become scholars of these scriptures and really learn of thier teachings, we will be able to better live out the commandment of loving your neighbor as yourself. You should be using these teachings to lift each other up, not bring them down.
Yes, we should be using these teachings to lift others up, not bring them down.
I AGREE 100% She has said what I thought for many years! Judgmental Christians pick and choose what they want to believe and follow in the bible.
WOW! Well put Miss C. 2003!!! She's definitely RIGHT!!!
Re: sticky_and_sweet – #407 I'm sure he wouldn't take your call.
Re: sticky_and_sweet – #408 you would do well to read some of these posts so you actually learn something. But I suppose that's too much to ask. We wouldn't want to learn anything now, would we? Ignorance is bliss.
Re: mreyes1006 – #412 mreyes posted: I am a Christian and it sickens me that "so-called, Christians" use the bible as a weapon to justify their discriminations! Please study your religion before you open your mouth because Jesus does not like a fool! …… WHY I DO BELIEVE IS EE YOU USING JESUS AS A WEAPON TO JUSTIFY YOUR DISCRIMINATIONS! My my my!
Re: mofolena – Well, I can say this….it has been found that if the mother is under a great deal of stress during a certain month of gestation (I think it's the third month or maybe the third through the fifth, it causes the brain in a male fetus to be wired like a female. This could be ONE cause of the birth defect resulting in being gay.
god will decide who goes to heaven and who doesn't. for all of you who are intolerant of gays and the rights they're entitled to, good luck, i'll be praying for you.
Re: petiteCobaye – #452 Who cares what you think? Would someone with a 182 IQ care what a person with an IQ the same number as their age thinks of them? LOL Besides, what you think of me is none of my business.
Re: Emmie859 – quoting "what you think of me is none of my business"
Wow, I've never heard it phrased like this….don't you mean "it's none of YOUR business" or "it's of no concern to me"?
Oh, well….just seems odd.
That was beautiful.
Re: bob1234 – #443 Lots of churches these days have been infiltrated by satan's minions and are not of God. From what you say about this "church", sounds to me to be a good bet that this is one of them. You should hear the garbage a lot of ministers are teaching these days, which has absolutely zero to do with anything taught by God or by Jesus in the Bible.
Re: Emmie859 – comment # 172
ROFLMAO @ iq of 182!!!!! You're killing me!!!! If your iq was ACTUALLY over 100 then I'm the Queen of England
Please stop, hurting my guts from laughing so hard!!!!
Re: Emmie859 – comment # 172
ROFLMAO @ iq of 182!!!!! You're killing me!!!! If your iq was ACTUALLY over 100 then I'm the Queen of England
Please stop, hurting my guts from laughing so hard!!!!
THAT'S RIIIGHT! #172
wow, well written. Brava Miss Cal 03
testify sister!
Re: UWishh – agreeee finally someone clears that out…This lady is going against the bibble and only keeping verses that she likes….
so why did God destroy sodome and gomorrah??? she never mentions that. I do not support gay or lesbian marriage, but i do not hate gay or lesbian people, i respect them because they are human beings no matter what their sexual preference is.
It's STILL all a load of superstitious bullshit!
Re: rockthecroc – i apologize for that…i'm a christian but im not like that.
That was so right on, and I so agree. Everyone should have to read that.
Hey, that church is in my town!!
Perfectly well spoken, there was a reason why she won Miss California.
She lists out justifiable and convincing reasons
this is amazing.
If all religious types felt this way, the world wouldnt be such a crazy place.
Pieperoni– GAy marriage opponents are all about hate,who the fck do you think you are kidding,yes Ca voted twice,but the second time it was 52%-48%. So it was a close vote,and whites and asians voted for gay marriage and latinos,blacks and uneducated republican trash voted for the bigoted side. Those are the facts,remember we don't like being pc. Also I must note that the republican led court in Ca voted for gay marriage,and the republican Gov Arnold also said he supports it,Oh and both our two Dem Senators support gay marriage. For the lowlife liars from the homophobic side,President Obama came out against prop 8 in Ca,so if you're going to quote him in the Ca debate,do it accurately.
EMMIE-YOU ARE DISGUSTING,DOWN WITH BIGOTS AND HATEMONGERS IN DISGUISE, GAY RIGHTS NOW.LOL
That was very beautifully said. It brought tears to my eyes. Thank you Nicole Lamarche (Ms. Cali 2003)
In the bible it is plain that we are to be about the spiritual connection with God; we should be seeking to know Him better and trying to please Him. This woman is missing the boat on what the Bible teaches. I'm sure she feels good about what she is saying and it is pleasing to others ears but people who really want to know how God feels on the issues should be reading the bible themselves, not listening to what other people say about it. It is too important to blow off.
For get ms. pastor America…she seems like a wordy nube…but she needs practice…
Two words: Joel Osteen…
A few more words: Calvary Community…
(they study Greek n Latin roots of the Bible n make it interesting/understandable)..
Calvary Phoenix.org lol
As a bisexual woman, I disagree whole heartedly with Carrie Prejean's opinion.
I think it's small minded, and reliant on a book full of "laws" and"rules" that have changed over the years, and which is called 'the word of g_d' when in fact it was written by men, (men who claim to have been seeing visions, many times - men who, in this day and age, would likely be institutionalized for schizophrenia and the like…) and has been translated and re-translated hundreds of ways over thousands of years.
Translations skew meaning. And if parts of the bible can be discounted by ALMOST ALL religious people (hello, who DOESN'T mix materials when they get dressed of a morning?) then the WHOLE bible is up for debate.
I *do* believe that many of the laws were written to protect people from diseases. I also believe that the passages re: homosexuality (if, indeed, the original texts are to be trusted as divine word, and IF the translations of them have not totally screwed up the original intent) can be discounted on the same basis.
All that said, as much as I disagree with Ms Prejean, I also believe she is entitled to her opinion and beliefs, as I am mine, as Perez is his. And that the nastiness on EITHER SIDE is uncalled for, and just wrong.
Be the bigger person Perez. Be the one comfortable enough in your own skin to say
Damn thing keeps cutting me off!
Be the bigger person here Perez. Be the one comfortable in your own skin enough to say, "I think you're wrong, but I respect your right to have an opinion" then move forward and fight a CLEAN fight against our opposition, rather than playing into their hands by making your opinion seem like the rantings of a zealot. You're no better than the bible thumpers - frothing at the mouth is frothing at the mouth, no matter which side you support…
A small technicality: According to the St. James translation of the bible, men laying with men is called "an abomination" while eathing shellfish is only called "unclean."
Well spoken, but I still think every one is entilled to their own opinions.
She has hers and Miss California has hers. You can not condemn an individual based on their beliefs….you can only hold tight to your own.
AMEN!!!!!
Lurve it! This is a WONDERFUL statement.
AMEN.!
Re: petiteCobaye – #473 Boy, you young whipper-snappers think you are so unbelievably smart, yet you know nothing about the history of the culture and it's sayings. You've been watching too many garbage hollywierd movies I guess to really learn anything. It's a cultural thing….the saying means I don't want to hear what you think of me because I don't give a damn what you think of me. Get it now?
#493 fair is fair: I really love how all of you pick and choose, or actually just make up out of thin air what you think is the truth in life, rather than the word of God. The Bible is NOT simply a work of man. But you fools, in your misguided arrogance and egotism, think you're the Gods of your own world, as if you were all-seeing, all-knowing and omnipotent. What a bunch of idiots and fools. Where's the demonstration? Need I say more?
Re: knowitall – you and your lying screen name….
THIS WEBSITE APPEARS TO HAVE AN STD.
What a smart lady. I completely agree with her. I had friends from church who behaved this way and I think they're crazy. God loves everyone because everyone is equal in his eyes. Miss California messed up her answer. Perez, you're absolutely correct that she does not possess the diplomacy and delicacy of speech that would make a good Miss USA. I'm sorry that you were hurt and angered by her comments. You're awesome!!
Clagg -You know I'm so sick of republican bigots,but there is hope when you see Meagan McCain or Arnold ca's Governor but they are a minority voice in a vicous Taliban like party. You can keep saying Obama doesn't believe in gay marriage,but I would say it's more because he doesn't think this country can handle it yet and he's been very respectful in all his statements. In fact when it mattered he came out against the very hateful prop 8 that barely passed over-turning a republican led courts decision for gay marriage. Anyway keep pointing to Obama when everyone with an IQ over 60 knows that its republicans that are the homophobic trash. Keep up the hate,your side will lose this ugly battle.
This woman is spewing the same garbage from that lifetime movie, "Prayers For Bobby"! So dumb! As if she didn't think anyone would notice…
If she knew anything, she'd know that the Bible says not to eat shellfish because it's an aphrodesiac. Perhaps you guys can figure the rest of what I mean out. Hmph.
Re: Emmie859 – Didn't the Bible say something about "Judge not,lest yee be juged"? You judged me to be a young whipper-snapper…I'm in my 30's. You judged me saying I watch too much "garbage" and "hollyweird" movies….who are you to judge my tastes in cinema? And I hardly watch television. I'm college educated and married to an officer in the military. You are way off. I'm only "judging" you based on the hatred you keep spewing because you are a giant hypocrite….as are most religious meanies. If you really didn't care about what we "lowlifes" think on here, why do you keep coming back for more and stirring the shit? I don't have to know you personally to see that you are indeed a hateful religious whacko, but you sure love to tell the rest of us what we're like IRL. I bet Jesus is really proud of you! (/rolls eyes)
haaaallllllelujahh!
word.