Former New York Times op-ed staff editor Bari Weiss interviewed Kim Kardashian for a new podcast on the journo’s Substack platform published Thursday morning, and there’s a LOT to unpack here!
The Keeping Up With The Kardashians star is remarkably candid with Bari, opening up in the 55-minute podcast about politics, her legal dreams, what she thinks about cancel culture, and, yes, estranged husband Kanye West‘s MAGA sensibilities.
Related: OMG! THIS Was Kim’s Birthday Present To Pete Davidson?!
Of course, Kim is forever in the news — especially in our corner of the media universe — but to see a politically-focused journalist like Weiss go toe-to-toe with the KKW Beauty founder was definitely interesting! Right off the top, the mom of four gets real about her arduous journey to becoming a lawyer.
Kim reflected on how difficult things were early on:
“For people that think that this is an easy way out, or the easy way to go to law school: only four states allow this program. You need 75 college credits and then you can become an apprentice for a law firm. You have to do 20 hours a week and send in tests. Halfway through, you have to do one bar exam, and it has a 16 percent pass rate. Then you have to do two more years and then you take the California bar, which has a 36 percent pass rate. So I didn’t pass the first time. Then I took it again. And I didn’t pass the second time. And I was so discouraged when I didn’t pass the third time. I’m taking hours and weeks away from my kids. I’m doing 12-hour days. I’m not going to dinners with friends. I’ve canceled my life for the last two years to really focus and do this.”
Wow!
As we previously reported, the reality TV mogul thankfully passed the baby bar and has moved on to deeper legal studies.
She found remarkable pride in that achievement, she explained to Weiss (below):
“Every time I failed I felt so bad about myself. But I learned something every single time and I was like, I’m not ready. I gotta do it. I have to work harder. And it was so important to me to at least pass this first bar to prove to myself that I could do it. When you’re not right out of college and your mind is not in a study mindset, it definitely takes a second to recalibrate. And then you’re like, ‘oh my God, am I just so old that I’m not retaining this information now? What’s happening? Why aren’t I passing this?’ But I did it. And it felt so f**king good.”
Amen!
More important than just her own personal legal hopes, though, Kim opened up to Bari about her advocacy for prison reform, including her infamous work in getting Alice Johnson pardoned.
Speaking about how she took heat from some for working with Donald Trump on prison reform issues, Kim said:
“I really don’t care about the criticism. I mean, my reputation over someone’s life? Destroy me then. I really don’t care. It was not even an option. And he did the right thing. I’m just about doing the right thing; I’m really not about politics at all. It’s really about the people inside and if I can do anything—no matter if it’s Obama, Biden, Trump, I’m willing to work with anybody. It’s not really about being liked. If I could change someone’s life, that’s what it’s about for me.”
That got particularly interesting because it quickly turned into a conversation about cultural appropriation. When Bari asked about Kim’s Kimono controversy, the reality TV star explained her reaction to that entire ugly situation:
“When it comes to something as serious as cultural appropriation, even if I know my intentions are good, I never want to take anything lightly. In the instance of Kimono and changing that name, it was an innocent name that the team came up with. But when I got a letter from the Japanese officials, I took it extremely seriously. It wasn’t even a question. I immediately halted production, and there were a lot of pieces in production. I said, ‘give me a week,’ and I had to think of a new name. Anyone that is starting a business knows how difficult it is to come up with a name and the trademarking and everything, but it just wasn’t an option not to.”
Interesting!
But still, Kim acknowledges, she believes cancel culture to be “the most ridiculous thing.” She explained why to Bari:
“Still, if I worried about every last thing that someone said and I had to try to change it, then I would never be me. Anyone wouldn’t be them! That’s why I think cancel culture is the most ridiculous thing, because I really do believe — and you and I have been at several dinners together where people are discussing their thoughts on it — in rehabilitation and freedom of speech. I’ve never really been into cancel culture.”
Kim didn’t stop there, either, adding this comment about cancel culture as it’s used in her own life:
“I believe that if we cancel someone for something that they had done or said in their past, then we’re not inviting them into the conversation to really understand. It depends on the situation. You might not care if it’s absolutely ridiculous. But it’s a fine line. It’s what you were asking in the original question: When do you let something go? And when do you have thick skin and not care what people say about you? The more that I don’t care about fame, the less I care to correct people. I don’t really care what people think about me, but there’s some times where I say, ‘OK, I completely understand how you would feel like this is disrespectful, and I will absolutely change this.’ I always own up to the mistakes that I make and I try not to make them again. … But I think if you don’t have these conversations with people, how are they ever going to change something that isn’t right?”
Well obviously we know and agree people grow and change!
Later, Bari asked Kim about Ye’s choice to rock a Trump-supporting MAGA hat on Saturday Night Live — which served as sort of a proxy discussion for Kanye’s overall Trump-leaning beliefs.
Kim acknowledged she was very nervous about it at first, revealing:
“I was very nervous. I didn’t want him to wear the red hat. I’m not really a rule breaker, so my personality would be like, ‘OK, you guys don’t like the red hat? I’ll take it off.’ I remember other people were around and it became a thing where he wasn’t going to go on because he wanted to be who he is. I’m very neutral, but that night I was very forceful with him, and argued with him like, ‘you have to take that hat off.’ And now looking back, I think, why should he take that off if that’s what he believes in? Why can’t he wear that on TV? Half of the country voted for him, so clearly other people like him.”
Damn!
Ultimately, Kim learned “a lot” from that incident and about Ye’s Trump support in general, explaining to Bari:
“No matter what, it taught me to be a little bit more empathetic for people that just want to do what they want to do: freedom of speech! And if you want to wear the hat, wear the hat. I respect the fact that he knew exactly what he believed in and always stood by that. To me, that’s a good quality to have, no matter who is against you and no matter what the circumstances are. I think that it’s just admirable and it’s just a really cool quality. Even if it’s not what I agree with, or even if I would have done it differently, I think it’s commendable.”
Hot take! It’s dangerous to generalize like this Kimmy!
No doubt this interview will surely get Twitter talking! Do U agree with Kim on any of this stuff, Perezcious readers?? What do U think about her cancel culture thoughts?!
Sound OFF about EVERYTHING here with your take down in the comments (below)! And you can listen to Kim’s full podcast interview with Bari HERE!
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